McLaren Killer thoughts
 

So, I was talking to one of my friends at the bar last night, and I made the boast that, for the 1 000 000 USD one would spend on a McLaren F1 Road Car, a Karmann Ghia could be built to beat every performance parameter. Does anyone else think that it could be done? With a bank roll of 1 000 000 USD, could a ghia beat:

0-100kph/0-62mph: 3seconds
Skidpad: 1g
Topspeed: 400kph/250mph



My approach:

I would start with a '55 Ghia (since almost nothing Ghia would be left, might as well start with the best looking body), go tube chassis, mid-engine with a (highly) tuned 996TT engine, a 6 speed transaxle, 996 GT2 wheels and tires, 993 suspension, and PCCB brakes to keep the unsprung weight down.


Any thoughts? Could it be done? How would you approach it? No, I was drunk when I made the boast.

This is what you get for 255,000 Euro (300k US)
 

The Bader racing Ghia gets you part of the way there for a third of the money:-

Price: 225,000 Euro or US$305k

0-100kph 4.4 secs

Top Speed: 186mph / 300kmh

http://www.bader-racing.de


http://www.bader-racing.de/pics/the_...karosserie.jpg

That is a sweet ride I like the wheels but they won't fit my car:bawling:

Strictly speaking they didn't fit the Ghia either. Herr Bader had to flare the fenders a bit to fit the 8 inch wide wheels. The wheels are BBS (pretty sure) and I'm sure they could make a 7 inch version that would be easier to fit.

top speed? given the KG aero challenges, i would have to go with NO unless they are changed so radically that it no longer even resembles a KG.

Not a chance, the McLaren is a purpose built car, built by a race car builder, it sacrifices nothing, so the parameters you've mentioned are only a few of the ones to consider when you think about making a "similar" car.

Jason

i think it is odd that eveyone says the ghia has large areodynamic issues but nobody can back that up with facts such a down force, up lift, vortex areas, or even a coeffeicient of drag!? drag bugs hae gotten above 150mph and not flipped over and into the beyond, yet the much more areodynamic ghia supposedly cant handle 110+mph?

there are some 10-11 second drag ghias that do hit 140+ and while they arent stock looking (they have a rear wing, whoopdy doo)they arent flipping over either.
you may be saying well hey they are just going that fast for a second or two, true but that is all the time is needed to crash a car at those speeds. those cars were also modified to go that fast and be able to handle it and the body does still look like a vw. so why cant you make a ghia capable of 150+mph for a sustained speed, its all in the suspension and removing the uplift these cars get. surely in all of the Fatherland there has been some guy that has succesfully made a 240+KPH Autobahn crusier.

all im getting at is that is hate when people say ghias cant be made areodynamically stable to do high speeds, that is BS:mad:

I don't suppose you would just trust me if I said, as an engineer, that everything is a compromise.

To wit, the aerodynamics of the McLaren were a comprimise with the cooling of the car. The McLaren overheats quite readily in hot weather (Road and Track overheated one twice in a day when it borrowed one).

Just buy an ARIEL ATOM with the supercharged Honda and retire with the money you will save . Ghia 0-62 yes 1g skidpad -yes closing in on 200mph club -not very likely but real performance only happens from 0-100-0.

True enough, everything IS a compromise, but that's a basic fact of life. I'm just saying in regards to performance on a paved surface, the McLaren didn't have many. The 1940's Volkswagen design has PLENTY, that being my point.

I've seen bugs flip over from apparently nothing during a drag race, they are not stable. Anyone see the PINKS episode? I've seen it a few times in person at Sacramento Raceway, just the littlest gust and those things go for a ride. Straight line speed in a controlled invironment is one thing, real world high speed driving is another. A Ghia is probably a better option for high speed, but like the quote above, to do it properly would take essentially a complete redesign.

Jason

since your not using any of the ghia, why not start with a McLaren F1? :p

The Bader Ghia reached 168MPH (270kph) before the journalist I read about got scared.

Here is a link to someone who races Ghias and has a little more input as to the aerodynamics of the Beetle and also Ghia.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=115568

Barret Camper has a lot of racing experience and knows from that experience and trial and error.

I tend to agree with Volksdent that everything is a compromise, but with enough money and more importantly cojones, it can be made fast and quick, but I doubt that it would ever make it to 200mph or above:shocked: !!!

Take care and Happy New Years,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

Correction: 186mph (~300kph)