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-   -   Engine combo... need some advice please (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3746)

super vw January 25th 2004 16:11

Engine combo... need some advice please
 
Ok, still in the research phase of my engine build for my 1303 (daily driving, Auto-X racing). I only have a $1500 budget to work from for parts (long block, exaust and carbs).

This is what i have came up with so far...

-94mm P/C
-69mm C/W crank (is cast going to be fine for under 5000 rpm?)
-Eagle w-120 cam (or like it from Scat)
-40mm/35.5mm heads from CIP-1 (s.s. valves)
-Weber 40mm IDA dual carbs (or would 44mm be better?)
-Exaust is still up in the air, what should i look for?

I was thinking about geting the Scat Engine kit that includes, P/C, C/W crank, cam (20, 25, 30, 35 scat grind option), HD oil pump, lifters, bearings, gasket kit, coneting rods. and then geting the other little things i need like push rods and tubes, full flow parts, intake and exaust... the Scat kit i have seen for $520 bucks online.

I calculated it out and it came to be around 1,300-1,400 bucks with including carbs.

Any ways, what should i get for push rods, full flow parts. What kind of comp should i run (how can i get a desired comp any ways?)?

This is my first engine build, i need all the help i can get! :D

Thanks!
Jonathan

boygenius January 25th 2004 19:03

Don't forget about the labor costs of having your case and heads machined for the larger cylinders and special tools for engine assembly.

super vw January 25th 2004 19:06

Yeah, i know... im forced to have my case bored and taped for full flow at Rymco down in california. Localy no one can do this kind of work (well at least no one knows VW's)

fast70 January 25th 2004 19:06

I'm not sure, but I think that the Scat kit uses a cast crank.

fast70

super vw January 25th 2004 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast70
I'm not sure, but I think that the Scat kit uses a cast crank.

fast70

I think is does aswell, is there any thing wrong with a cast crank? is the stock crank cast?

fast70 January 25th 2004 19:13

The stock crank is forged, because when Ferdinand was designing the engine they found that the cast cranks had the fault of snapping after spirited use. Therefore, since you said you want to use your car for Auto-X, I would stay away from the cast crank and buy a forged. From what I hear, CB Performance now makes 76mm forged cranks for the same cost as a 69mm. So for maximum displacement on a budget that is what I would go with.

fast70

boygenius January 25th 2004 19:19

I think the stock crank is forged. The scat cast crank is supposed to be good for 5,500 rpm and 125hp.

boygenius January 25th 2004 19:20

What is the biggest stroke crank you can run without clearancing the case???

super vw January 25th 2004 19:20

So is it SAFE to use a cast crank? i dont plan to go past 5500 rpm, but im sure i will have damn near 120hp once done

super vw January 25th 2004 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
What is the biggest stroke crank you can run without clearancing the case???


I think its the stock 69mm

fast70 January 25th 2004 22:30

The biggest without clearancing is 76mm although a 78 will fit with just minor clearancing. The stock crank is forged. To be safe, if you are comming anywhere near the HP threshold number, I would go with forged. It is cheap insurance. I have a friend who made the mistake of buying a cast crank and has had to have the crank turned down twice with only a couple thousand miles on the motor. So even though it is not that expensive to have turned:
1. It weakens the crank even farther
2. By the time the cost of the crank and cutting are added you have exceeded the cost of a forged crank.
3. Each time they need to be cut, the motor has to be torn down and new oversize bearings bought. So factor in the cost of a couple of sets of bearings.
4. You are taking unneccessary chances and stretching the rubber band to save a few bucks.

fast70

Eurolook71 January 25th 2004 22:36

You can run up to a 76 crank without doing anything to the case, but the rods will need a little clearancing where the bolts are...or is that a 74???.... :confused: ... i know a 74 will fit for sure.... :o


I would stay away form a cast crank like the plauge, but that's my opinion.
Its just extra insurance knowing the heart of your well balanced engine wont snap if you wanted to have a little fun.


Maybe wait a while till you can get a Scat Volkstroker 2 kits, (that cast crank is the volkstroker 3 kit)

These are more expensive but, well, in the end you have a more reliable crank....you got what you paid for.

For the VS 2 kit and full flow parts and pushrods, etc, etc...go to aircooled.net

They have a full-flow kit, with modified and blue-printed pump and everything you need for I think $130. Also, if you get your carbs here, they help you set them up with the right jets and stuff. Check it out....

I wanst aware that CBP was selling their 76 cranks for the same price as a 69....i'll have to check that out...I havent bought my new crank yet soo....

super vw January 25th 2004 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast70
The biggest without clearancing is 76mm although a 78 will fit with just minor clearancing. The stock crank is forged. To be safe, if you are comming anywhere near the HP threshold number, I would go with forged. It is cheap insurance. I have a friend who made the mistake of buying a cast crank and has had to have the crank turned down twice with only a couple thousand miles on the motor. So even though it is not that expensive to have turned:
1. It weakens the crank even farther
2. By the time the cost of the crank and cutting are added you have exceeded the cost of a forged crank.
3. Each time they need to be cut, the motor has to be torn down and new oversize bearings bought. So factor in the cost of a couple of sets of bearings.
4. You are taking unneccessary chances and stretching the rubber band to save a few bucks.

fast70

I totaly agree with you Fast70, it would be wise to invest in a strong backbone i guess. I just wasent to sure on the cast VS forged debate. but it makes sence to use the better product.
So spent a few hours looking around for parts, and there prices. i came up with a CB performance chromolly forged crank, its $189 bucks :S but its the cheapest i could find from a good name. it seams to have counter weight on it... but does not list that it is (well non of CB cranks say they are... so they all must be c/w considering they have counter weights in the pics :P)

For the full flow i looked at the CB "Maxi-5" oil pump. it has a Full flow outlet on its cover. After geting the pump with outlet, and the remote filter adaptor... what else is needed to complete the system (like what hoses, fittings work, and are not expensive)

Thanks!
Jonathan

fast70 January 25th 2004 22:48

I was told that CB Performance was going to offer either a 74mm or 76mm for the cost of the 69mm. I don't know if the website has been updated yet. This is what I was told by someone who has been in contact with them.

CB's cranks are counterweighted. They are really nice. I am using a 82mm super race crank and the 5.5in Super race rods. It looks solid with those H-beams on there.

Super VW, don't forget the old saying, no replacement for displacement. Don't be afraid to get a crank larger than 69mm. Clearancing is not difficult at all, just take your time. For just a little more money your fun can be increased many times over.

Just my 2 cents,
fast70

Eurolook71 January 25th 2004 22:54

I agree totally with fast70...

I'n my opinion, the ultimate street setup would be a 78 crank with 90.5B pistons. 2007cc


That piled with some dual 40idfs, and a quality merged exhaust, you have and great RELIABLE type 1 motor.


And then there's they Type 4 motor.....:D


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