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944 to VW Spring Plate thread-How to
I promised a while back that I would start a thread, but with two little ones, a wife and work finding time beyond just reading has been tough. Scored a few minutes since both went down early, and msot of the evenings chores are done.
Most questions that I have seen revolve around cleaning up the VW spring plates and which torsion bar covers, and bushing should be used. I will cover the actual spring plate clean up as I thought this would be benefitial to anyone restoring there bug. Removing the spring plate can be considered a thread onto itself, I will suggest anyone removing spring plates to invest the 20-30 dollars and buy the spring plate retaining tool, you will need this a few times so might as well be safe and do it right. There are a few threads covering this so I won't go into those details. 1. Equipment Needed- As far as what I used to remove the bushing from the plates can be seen in the below pic. Essentially, a saw to cut large chunks, a chissel set to remove smaller chunks. Just use caution to not score the spring plate, a few grinding wheel attachments. I believe one is a 3M pad from autozone for removing paint and the other was a scotch bright material pad. Lastly a brass or aluminium cleaning brush. Take your time and it will all come off. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...4.jpg~original 2. Spring plate options. Essentially there are three options that I am familiar with. Option1 is utilize a cut down 944 torsion bar cover plate. This requires some trial and error to cut down just enough of the 944 cover to fit and not interfere in the bug wheel wheel. Essentially you will utilize (From left to right)- 944 cut down spring plate cover, 944 outer bushing, 944 Spring plate and VW bug inner bushing (OEM rubber style shown) http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...6.jpg~original Option2 is utilizing VW OEM style torsion plate with VW beetle OEM or Poly Bushing. From right to left- Poly VW inner bushing>944 Spring Plate>VW Outer Bushing>OEM style cover http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...5.jpg~original Option3- is utilizing a GWD torsion plate system. GWD is a german tuning company that specializes in bugs. They were part of the germanlook shootout that was in VW trends back in the day.. If interested I have scanned copies of that article somewhere.. Here are some pics, but essentially they use a delrin bushing that mates to the outer spring plate section, and they run through an alum housing that has a sealed bearing. Some grinding of the delrin bushing is needed to ensure a snug fit onto the spring plate but overall Pretty nifty. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...9.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...0.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...1.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...2.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...3.jpg~original These are the three popular approaches that can be utilized without going uniball style plates. Incidently the GWD can be utilized without Torsion Bars (TB) and coilovers if needed. More to come on next post. |
3. Now that you have determined which approach is best for you based on skill, budget and time, there are a few things to prep the spring plates.
Again a few options: - remove them and wire brush them clean and replace. (Personnally if you made it this far, why not spend the extra time) http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...1.jpg~original - Dissassemble and sand blast them and paint http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...1.jpg~original - Or my personnal favorite, is dissassembley, sand blast and plate- For this project I utlized a Yellow Zinc plating. Not sure if there are variations but I think the OEM style that is shiny is better as this yellow is not to scratch resistant. So you want to know what the spring plate looks like when fully dissassembled :) http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...8.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...9.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...0.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...1.jpg~original Here they are trial mounted on my polished 944 arms which I caught some hell for.. incidently I just finished cleaning and started polishing the other arm in preperation for brake assembly :P http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...3.jpg~original More info coming |
Last thing, since this took a little creativity and leveraging of ideas from folks like Clive (want to give credit here, since we were thinking the same thing at about the same time, but he posted the idea first)
When utilizing 944 style spring plates you may encounter clearance or interference issues, these are well documented in older posts which discuss this issue. Some options to remedy this include grinding, cutting of the webbing for the TB housing and other creative ideas. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...6.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...9.jpg~original Clive and I both realized that by pushing the plates outward some how we may be able to clear the TB housing and not have any clearance issues. I believe he is or will be using plastic spacers of some sorts. I decided to go a different path and use some steel shims. The company I used is called Mc Master's http://www.mcmaster.com (NJ location) Pics of the shims, 2" ID, by 3" OD, and about 2mm thickness http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...1.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...4.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...5.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...8.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...6.jpg~original Here is the spring plate, after sandblasting I realized that I should have loosened the two bolts, so I did not finish painting. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...3.jpg~original http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...2.jpg~original With 2 shims, you are about 4mm, with 3 shims you get 6mm, which is what the bolts height is. I will have to trial fit when the weather gets better and see how many it will take. May need to get longer bolts, but will see later on. The shims are low carbon steal. I tried to find higher carbon, but was not available, as well as other materials. Since they are prone to rusting I took the liberty and had them yellow zinc plated also. I will utilize some good swepco grease to help prevent rust. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...5.jpg~original Let me know what you think or feel free to add or comment. I know I probably missed something, and my wife is giving me grief so gotta run VR Alex |
Great thread guys! I have one thing to add myself: In my case there was an extreme case of rubbing of those 2 bolt heads to the shock towers. So I can tell you the simptoms: The car feels like it doesn't have any suspension at all. It only bounces on the tire wall. And of course the higher the sidewall, the more bouncing you get.
Now, in my case I fixed it with plastic spacers, like the ones described by Alex, but that lead to another problem: Using one 2mm spacer on one side, and 2mm on the other side, gives you 4mm more length between the 2 anti-roll bar mounting bolts, which are on the spring plates. So, the anti-roll bar is now 4mm shorter. I didn't realise that, and I mounted it just like before, ofcourse tensioning it by 4mm. That lead to the anti-roll bar pulling one of those little bushings out, and setting it free after only a few hundred kilometers. So, if you are going to use spacers, go ahead and use the same width on the anti-roll bar mounting bolts also! |
Xellex,
Thanks for the heads up.. I can definitely see that happening now, did not foresee that issue when I was putting that thread together, but now I will put it on the radar when I test fit later this year. I would think based on the amount of offset, it should be simple to use a shim or washer to offset the swaybar endlink to the spring plate and the actual swaybar, thus ensuring that the endlink is centered, does not pull the swaybar and cause any binding.. As I get there I will update and post more pics.. just going slow due to life, family, work.. Thanks for the heads up.. VR Alex |
Hi Chaps,
Alex, thanks for the acknowledgement. The reasoning behind my use of plastic spacers was that they will have a self lubricating effect and I was concerned about the metal to metal contact and the lack of reliable lubrication provision. I do wonder about the durability but that can be easily monitored. Xellex, I also found the slight misalignment of the anti-roll bar ends but I easily resolved that by using rod ends with an adjustable threaded tube between to couple the AR bar and the spring plate. The rod ends have a lateral misalignment tolerance so they couple up well. Also, the threaded adjustment allows a variation on the AR bar actuation angle to give slightly different lever arm lengths to (slightly) stiffen the bar. Clive |
Where can I buy a pair of the GWD torsion covers?
I have tried to find their site but the only one I can find seems to not work very well:( |
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Yes, that's the one.
Can't navigate the site at all, it just hilights the text you select. And yes I have tried google translate. I'll email them I think and see if they can answer my query's that way, thanks for your help:) |
I had a friend lend a hand, so I did not formally go through them..
Can't remember if they spoke english.. Let me know how it goes, if not I can check via my college if they got your email.. Alex |
Extra Shims.
Gents,
I have picked up a set of the above mentioned shims (a whole pack really). I just wanted to let you guys know in case anyone stateside needs some. I have the 4 that I will use and a set of 4 extras... Anyone needing them can ping me. thanks. jmd |
Has anybody over here actually run the GWD torsion bar covers (in a daily)?
How do they compare to stock, urethane or a uni-ball setup? Is it too harsh for a daily driver? |
I drove my college's car when I was in germany and as far as NVH I could not draw any direct conclusion that it was attributed to the spring plates.
Mind you he also has coilovers, low profile tires and kafer bar set up. Car is driven by his wife at times. Just a data point Alex |
My present MBT set up introduce a good source of NVH in combination of the low sidewall tires. So I get the 951 spring plates to give it a try.
Was wondering if the use of the shims would cause suspension binding? What do you think if the 2 plates are soldered then remove the head of the bolts? Obviuosly will eliminate the posible height adjustment but mantain the camber one.:confused: |
Onix,
With regard to the binding, did not see any.. I was trial fitting everything and was playing with how many shims to use.. The reason I say this is, as I ground down the red ureathan bushing, it was sitting deeper in its pocket, so I did not get a chance to figure out how many shims I needed for the bolt to clear. Also when you do this you may need to get longer bolts as well as some washers since you will be playing (messing) with how the spring plate sits flush on the torsion bar. Just as I was getting all this sqared away it got cold, so I did not finish.. now with 20" of snow and 5 ' drifts that ain't happening for a few months.. I am expecting some snow tomorrow so not to happy.. Lastly seems like something had nicked the Torsion bar housing on the beetle and now I need to clearance the housing a little as there is a piece of metal that rubs the Spring plates. As far as welding, I wanted to keep the adjustablity.. so I did not opt for that.. I see what you mean, seems feasible if you can well properly.. I really wanted the MBT setup but it was out of my reach $$ on this go round with everything else needing attention.. Hope to have more to report later as it warms up.. I got my rears arms all cleaned up except for the CV but they do look nice... Take care, Alex |
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