What is your interest in having a bolt-on A-Arm front suspension???
 

Guys,

I have been talking with Jason (Volksdent) and also with John Busceme of XV Motorsports about the possibility of designing and marketing an a-arm bolt on system for the aircooled VW community.

My question and also John's is do you think it is a viable marketing venture. I realize that there are a lot of possibilities. Jason and Eyeball Engineering both have I believe the right idea of being able to use as many VW/Porsche parts as possible to minimize the costs to the car owner. Also, having a bolt on system that can be converted back to torsion bar is the way to go.

A little background on John Busceme of XV Motorsports. I first saw his 'business' on "Dream Car Garage" of the Speed Channel. His approach to changing a Challengers front torsion suspension to unequal lenght a-arm set up was done extremely well. I was so impressed that I purchased his DVD on the whole series of his build and testing. Please go to http://www.xvmotorsports.com/ and check out his company. I talked with John a little the other day and we would have to do a lot more discussion on the particulars, but rest assured, if he were to get involved, it would be done 110% correct.

I guess the main concern would be for everyone involved is costs as always ;) . I can see the base system eventually being the cradle/a-arms/steering rack. Having different options or combinations of springs/shocks available being the main cost variable. Possibly having different steering box/rack options is another thought.

This is just a thought and I am in the infancy stages of seeing what can be done; if anything.

Your thoughts and constructive input is greatly appreciated. Also, how much in very rough costs would you be willing to spend?

Thanks,

Kelly (Cohibra)

Kelly,

Sounds like a great project! Thanks for taking the initiative with Jason on this project.

I am definately curious to see what comes of the project. If it makes the car handle better I am game!

The price point would be flexible. If the kit came with a custom brake set (like Wilwood calipers and rotors) it could definately be a higher $ sale due to the added value... It is always a hard sell when you get 2 control arms for $1000! :(

I think design wise it has to be bolt on w/o cutting up the car. Reversible is always a bonus as well.

Thanks!

I also get questions about my wishbone design fitting earlier cars but the torsion bars are closer together, so maybe keep in mind the option to adjust the jig to cater for early/late chassis?
Rich

Take a look at the current offerings for the street rod market. If you haven't planned on spending $1500-$2500, you are kidding yourself. Obviously, those guys have their kits down to a generic, mass produced package and they still ain't cheap.
How would this package compare in price and complete-ness? How many parts will the end user have to source? Will the spindles accept diff brake setups?
I think offering a stripped down kit and a full tilt kit would be good if possible but not sure how feasible? too many options might make it harder to keep your costs down.

Whatever the outcome, count me in!

Jeff-

Anything that uses off the shelf stock parts will be the way to go. I am trying to develope something similar for supers. The only non stock part will be the actual A arm and the mounts for it, the rest will be off the shelf bushings, ball joints and break parts. The one I am building will allow an owner to conver back if they wish.

That will be good. I am looking forward to get one.

I would have no problem with $2500 for a bolt on A-arm conversion.
I just wish it were already available. I've followed several threads that sounded like they were going somewhere and then petered out after a couple of years. Patience, patience...

Well the problem is not so much putting one together. Just about any one with a little math and access to welding equipment can put together a modified suspension member for a VW. Getting a quality mass produced version of it on the market that is in the price range of the consumer is another matter entirely. Most find the start up costs to prohibitve or cannot find a company to produce them at a fair price.

For me it is more a matter of liability that may stop me selling my design...

I was at Laguna Seca last Mon and Tues. 034 Motorsports was there. They make HiPo aftermarket older Audi stuff. They have a 90 coupe with 450hp and all the LSD Quattro stuff done. Christian Miller(Speed Touring Car Championship Jetta driver) was slamming that thing around the track at insane speeds. They had installed a new lower control arm that they fabbed up to increase castor. Worked great for 6 sessions. Coming in to turn 2 under braking one of them let go. Tire squashed into the fender and locked up, but he was able to take it straight off the end of the track and the only damage done was related to the broken control arm.

Moral of the story, aftermarket stuff that is under load needs to be tested. Christian is a professional race car driver testing under controlled conditions. Had this occured on a freeway offramp, someone could have been killed. I'm not going to be selling my design till it has been vigorously tested by me and people like Christian. He would love to thrash my bug around the track. If something breaks there, it's within possibility. The product that I will hopefully end up selling HAS to be safe, well constructed, efficiently built, and function properly under a lot of different conditions.

I know everyone interested is chomping at the bit to get their hands on this thing, but it's not really worth it unless its done properly. Eyeball engineering has about 3 of their design on the road, but most are trailer queens. Nobody else has a design that is close to the strength built into mine, but that doesn't mean it's infallible. If anyone else cares to start this project they are free to do so, but it is a long, long road if done properly, and I think, in regards to my design, patience will be rewarded by a carefully thought out, safe, and relatively inexpensive product that can be used for many years without the fear of failure.

Jason

Sorry Guys,

I was out of business for the last few days. My computer took a major, well, you know what I mean. :evil: I am just now getting it back together. I lost almost everything on my hard drive. Very frustrating.

I had been meaning to compile the questions from all the sites/forums that I originally posted to and make one cohesive thread/post.

One thing for thought...My original intent, and I believe James and Bill (EyeBall Engineering) was to use as many VW parts as possible to keep the options open for everyone. I was hoping to keep the ball joints out VW. I also wanted to use a VW rack and pinion steering from the Rabbit/Jetta/Golf/Fox if at all possible. I guess what I am saying, I was hoping for a completely engineered bolt on cradle and a-arms using VW parts. I am sure that all the lowering/track width/adjustability concerns will be addressed later. This just started out to ask the feasibility and interest of having one available. The costs will be discussed later. As with any product, the more people signing up to buy one, the lower the cost :D !!!

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra)

Agreed. At first I thought I could just put something together rather quick and safe but due to posts and interactions here on the board ( thanks Volkdent) I came to realize it is going to be a rather long hard road. I plan the stress test the heck out of my designs both on and off the car to ensure reliabilty. I would rather over build a little safety into the control arms than save a littel weight and have a disaster. As for race safe control arm members I leave it up to the racers to decide if an item can be used safley on their cars. ( insert race disclamer here)

I plan to use the prototypes I build as a base design to have a more refined version derived from. I am looking into companies that take items and redesign them for optimum preformance and ease of creation. That way the control arms are safe and well designed for safety.

PS. Volkdent I would like to kick a few ideas around with you later.

bolt on A-arms $2500...... for that money your well on your way to full costom tube chassis with front and rear fully independent adjustable suspension. just a thought

Whose got those? How much? Not a drag chassis right?

Jason

I forgot where I found this

http://www.rorty-design.com/content/beetle.htm