DS Pump
 

Bryan, Pete,

Where did you guys get your "cummings" pumps .. I'm looking for some information on where to get one, does any one have a spare for sale ? I have a tank, just need the pump.

CSP lost my order and its going to be another month before I can get something :mad:

Thanks,

Sandeep

Hey Sandeep,

I got mine from Steve. I think they used these pumps in Formula VEE. Hope that helps.
I'm sure Bryan knows more.

Could you source it from CSP Europe? When i ordered my linkage, breather tank, it bought it online through the German site. At that time i didn't know about CSP USA. It came pretty quick.

It my T1 fits your motor, you could borrow it for a month or so.

Pete,

Thanks for the info .. I've got a pump ordered now. Do you need a shut off valve between the tank and the pump ? I would think so if the tank is mounted high.

I think thats the valve you were opening when we went for a ride in you Super ?

Thanks

Sandeep

I have a ball valve in between the tank and pump. The tank is so high that if i leave it for a few days the motor "fills up". I've made it a habit to close it whenever i park, and open when i get back in. Not needed, but this way i'll never forget.

Hi Sandeep,

Both petes and my cummings pumps were bought from Ed schumer, petes pump is probably in good shape, lifter chunks went through mine, so mine is junk now.
I was told by crazy eddy that they are old formula vee pumps, they are nice cause they sit low and allow you to run a large fan pulley.
since messing up my cummings pump, i have tried the cb dry sump pump, which i still have and would sell, but i feel that its gears are too small for my turbo application. I have a deano pump now, which has nice sized gears, but will be a tight fit with all my fancy pipes and stuff back there.
I also have a ball valve on the feed, its a bit of a pain to remember to open it all the time, bad news if you forget. I'm thinking of putting a starter interlock on it to not allow the engine to turn over unless it is open.

hope this helps , bry

Hi Sandeep,
Didn't remember your email adress, so I'll post it here:
BAS dry sump pump is appr. 435 euro's. It has 30mm and 36mm gears according to the catalog and oval hand shaped ports to minimize pressure loss and should be a quality item.

Regards,
Walter

over the past 3yrs i've done it 5-6 times.
worst time was: parked under a carport for the night, and since it was outside, i put plastic bags over and around the velocity stacks. well the next morning in a hurry, jumped in the car, and fired it up. was still sleepy and thought, "wierd holding 2500rpm idle and oil light still on!!" :eek: finally woke up and shut it down (5sec). took the bags off that where sucked onto the butterfly's, and cracked the oil valve. fired up instantly with oil@100+psi cold, idleing 900rpm, no problem :D .

other times jump in, fire it up, oil light stays on, shut it off, open valve, no problem. i catch it right away.

usually, the oil light goes out as soon as it turns over, before firing.

Thanks to all for the information. I gave BAS a call, they are out of stock, more coming in a month.

I gave CB Performance a call on Monday, and had their pump here on Wednesday ! Now that was FAST.

I have ordered all of my AN fittings and hose, hopefully will be here early next week. I did not order their solenoid valve( ignition switch operated) until I check the oil level in the case after a night of sitting. :eek:

Sandeep

Cool!
Is the CB DS pump specifically for type 4 or is it sold the same for T1 as T4?
Couldn't find the T4 DS pump on their site, only the 99,95 DS pump for Type 1...
Is it a Schadeck?
How does it line up with the holes in the T4 case?

BTW, the solenoid valve seems like a good idea!

Thanks, I am looking into it myself also, hence the q's.
Walter

the t1 cb pump that i received was a Schadeck

Yes the T1 pump is a Schadek 99$ USD, as mentioned by CLKWRK.

Its really a cool, compact little system ... pressure side has 32mm dia gears that are 21mm wide, scavenge side has 32mm dia gears that are 26mm long, so the ratio S/P is 1.238.

Oil path is as follows for a T4 application:

From the stock pickup location in the case -> scavenge gears -> out of pump -> remote oil thermostat -> remote oil cooler -> DS Tank, simple enough.

From the DS tank -> pressure gears -> transfer port in pump -> stock oil filter -> block of plate for stock oil cooler (block off plate is modified to let oil pass through as if a cooler was present) - > oil gallies.

This is how I am plumbing my system ... funny thing is the AN fittings/hose cost more than the pump/DS tank :eek:

I have a NOS T4 case sitting at home so I can take pics of the ports / case alignment. I'm using the stock T4 cam with rivets so I will have to take out my original T4 pump and take some measurements to get the T1 to fit.

Let me know what pics you need and I will post them here.

Sandeep

Thanks Sandeep; that CB price is very competitive indeed.

I am very curious how the pump fits (or doesn't) into the stock cam and how the intake port of the pump lines up to the case hole. I don't think you can fotograph the alignment, but your personal report is more then enough for me ;)

So, thanks in advance,
Walter

I took some pictures last night but they came out blurry ... I will retake tonight.

The T4 case pickup tube diameter at the entrance to the pump is 12mm dia, and the 45 deg passage to the stock oil filter is 10mm dia.

On the pump, the intake to the scavenge side is 15mm dia and the output to the stock oil filter location is 12mm, so the pump has inlet/outlet bigger than the passages in the T4 case.

Due to this, the pump passages line up well with the case passages, if you really wanted to, you could try to open up the case passages to match the pump but I will not. In the pics you can fully see the case passage from the stock pickup tube location through the pump scavange hole (15mm dia) and when I stick a pencil in from the stock oil filter location, you can see it through the pump transfer port (12mm dia).

From measurements with the stock T4 pump, the body of the CB pump is roughly the same height at the drive boss, and it fit the case nicely without the drive tange .. remember, I am using a stock cam with rivets so I could measure no clearance issues.

To get the drive tange to engage the cam, I pressed the gears further onto the drive shaft with a vise and some sockets, about 3mm total, in effect making the drive tange shorter. I can turn over the engine with the starter (no coil wire attached !) and pump installed and when I pulled the pump, there is no contact with the cam rivets. I seem to have about 1mm clearance from the rivets to any location on the pump.

The only item I have to address is to machine about 3mm from the driveshaft that now sticks into the cover plate, essencially making the whole drive tange 3mm shorter. I did not want to touch the opposite side of the drive that engages the cam slot. I will press the gears off and do this on the weekend.

The pump clears the BAS header by about 13mm so no clearance issues ! and no issues with the pump input/output touching the case. If you have a rear engine hanger bar, you will not be able to fit this pump. I'm using a Cup brace so no issues. Not sure if this pump will fit in a 914.

So looks like I'm good to go with the installation. Just need to install the tank, wait for the fittings/hose to show up, plumb the system and we're on the road for a test. Good thing the weather here is still crappy :mad: Hope to be driving in early April.

Sandeep

Thanks for the excellent report Sandeep!
It sure looks like the way to go.

Greetings,
Walter

hiya Sandeep,

i measured my dynosoar pump, pressure side is 32mm long x 32mm dia, and scavenger side is 64mm long x 32mm dia.

2:1 ratio, thats why i like this pump, the scavenger side is twice as big as the feed to the engine, that way i can use it to suck foamy hot oil out of my turbo, and foamy hot oil out of my sump plus whatever air it can find in there. Its big though and clearance is a problem.

I have a spare cb pump, if you want to check it out. I get my fittings at the parker hydraulics store, not sure how competitive their pricing is, but their products are top notch and they will make custom stainless braided hoses for hight heat applications (close to header).

bry :D