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-   -   TIV engine project (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11396)

K9Dober January 1st 2012 13:30

TIV engine project
 
It really started out as a TI 2332 project for my '56 oval, but has ended up as a TIV 3000 turbo project without a car. I wanted to build a sleeper out of my '56 with the look of a completely original car, but with big power. Since then, due to different circumstances, including Wallys impressive build and results :notworthy:, the TI has been sold, and things have evolved a bit. The '56 is now being restored to completely original deluxe specs.

One of the issues in choice of vehicule for the new engine, is handling. That's why it's not going to be the '56. I'm leaning towards a super, preferably a '75, but being as messed up as I am, you'd actually never know what'll happen. :lmao:

So, instead it's going to be an original TIV housing, with 90mm full circle crank & 103mm LN Nickies with JE pistons. Other parts on the shelves are vanagon heads, completely redone with extra fins, Pauter rockers, TI lifters, ARP bolts, Riechert cooling and a GT76 turbo with 2 different housings, one 0.81 and one 1.15, unsure of which will be used.

Cam is going to be a JPM raptor and rods from FAT performance, neither of these are on the shelves at the moment.

There are many unsolved issues yet, and there will be a lot of trial and error. The builder has been building TIV engines for more than 25 years, including different turbo and race engines, and some of these engines has been driven for +20 years without major hickups. Yet, this build will only be accomplished by the help of a lot of people, including this GL forum. :)

Another issue is time. Both the builder and I have many projects on the sides, and as my job includes over 250 travel days a year, this will not be a quick solve. I hope that the longblock will be assembled by May, and maybe turnkey in winter next year. Then comes the issue of the car! :lmao:

Lets see if this journey will ever end, and I hope that you'll chime in with comments as this (hopefully!) will evolve. :D

And a happy new year to all of you!

hotsauce January 2nd 2012 16:58

Sound expensive.

Wally January 3rd 2012 10:03

^^ This forum is not about what our hobby costs imo, but what everybody's dreams and passions are.

To me, it sounds like fun!
Is Jacob your engine builder?
Personally I wouldn't do a 90mm stroke, especially not in a turbo as it can hinder reliability more then it gains in performance imo.
What does the GT76 flow max and what are your boost and hp goals?

Oh, and sorry for being responsible about your T1 gotten sold :o:lmao:
Now on the irony side: there's a 1200 T1-turbo now in my 1303 and I've sold the Riechert cooling...:rolleyes:

NO_H2O January 3rd 2012 10:23

Sounds like a great project. I to would skip the 90 mm crank. They don't leave much room for cam lobes. But a 103x80 should be a beast. I would like to build a 102 x 71 EFI turbo set up one day.

hotsauce January 3rd 2012 12:09

Expensive usually goes hand in hand with fun. Guess I should have elaborated.

K9Dober January 4th 2012 12:46

Thanks for your comments!

@hotsauce: Being married is expensive, this is my playground! :lmao::D

@Wally: No, Jacob isn't the builder. He'll install new seats in the heads, but the rest is up to the builder. I know that a 90mm is causing different issues, but I've knowledge of different N/A engines with 90mm stroke that are working pretty well, and have done for a couple of years. FAT makes rods similar to Cunningham rods. A dragracer has them in his 2,7 TIV powered 1303, and they have been abused for a long period, eventhough they are pretty thin at the bottom. I do have a 78,4mm crank also if everything goes south. :cup2: I haven't got a flowchart for the turbo, unfortunately. It is a BB Innovative 76mm in/80mm out, which has done 3 dyno runs on Leif Nyströms drag engine. It was too small though for his engine! :eek: The 1.15 is divided, and the 0.81 is single.

@NO_H2O: I don't think cam lobes will be too bad, and the builder has also done the 2,7 I described further up, and there's actually a lot of room in that engine. :)

Thanks guys! :cool:

Wally January 4th 2012 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by K9Dober (Post 82780)
It is a BB Innovative 76mm in/80mm out, which has done 3 dyno runs on Leif Nyströms drag engine. It was too small though for his engine! :eek: The 1.15 is divided, and the 0.81 is single.

Right, thats a HUGE turbo! I saw it also has a T4 turbine footprint :D
How was the ride Leif gave you with this turbo? LOL

Just for consideration: a 90mm on a 200-250 hp N/A engine might behave differently on a 600-750hp engine :rolleyes:
It is cool to just try it though and run a crazy good 1/4 mile time...once :p Nah, just teasing you ;)

volkdent January 4th 2012 14:51

Pics please, I'm a visual learner!

Jason

70Turbobug January 6th 2012 06:25

Quote:

So, instead it's going to be an original TIV housing, with 90mm full circle crank & 103mm LN Nickies with JE pistons. Other parts on the shelves are vanagon heads, completely redone with extra fins, Pauter rockers, TI lifters, ARP bolts, Riechert cooling and a GT76 turbo with 2 different housings, one 0.81 and one 1.15, unsure of which will be used.

Cam is going to be a JPM raptor and rods from FAT performance, neither of these are on the shelves at the moment.
Hi,
I agree with Wally and the others also.I wouldn´t go with a 90mm crank.You won´t have any advantage and you will have to take a lot of material out of the case.I save the money and keep the stock 71mm crank.Stock rods with ARP or Raceware bolts will do the job also.Again take a look at Wally´s build he´s pumping out 460hp reliably out of 2.2 Liters and 500hp is possible.He has a stock 66mm crank and rods.
If you do want more,then I wouldn´t go any higher than a 82mm crank and then either Moldex or Pauter.There´s just no need to go with a big crank.

chug_A_bug January 6th 2012 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkdent (Post 82784)
Pics please, I'm a visual learner!

Jason



:woohoo:

NO_H2O January 6th 2012 12:36

I used an 82 mm crank with chevy rod journals in my type 4 and and only have 0.020 clearance between the cam lobe and rods. Cam has 0.500 lift on a 1 inch base circle. So a 90 mm will limit the lift or your cam a good bit and require lots of case material to be removed. The 78.4 will almost be a drop fit with chevy rod journals.

Wally January 6th 2012 13:39

Hey Mark,

You really don't need the stock crank or want that always. More displacement is always a good thing: faster spool of a bigger turbo :-)
Personally I would limit the stroke at 78mm with type 1 rod journals (55mm) for optimum on stroke and strength.
Head flow and how much boost your engine can take will largely determine the max hp, the size of the engine only how much rpm it takes to get to full boost.
But I am sure you won't grenade the engine after start-up with larger strokes ;-)

hotsauce January 6th 2012 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 82800)
Hi,
I agree with Wally and the others also.I wouldn´t go with a 90mm crank.You won´t have any advantage and you will have to take a lot of material out of the case.I save the money and keep the stock 71mm crank.Stock rods with ARP or Raceware bolts will do the job also.Again take a look at Wally´s build he´s pumping out 460hp reliably out of 2.2 Liters and 500hp is possible.He has a stock 66mm crank and rods.
If you do want more,then I wouldn´t go any higher than a 82mm crank and then either Moldex or Pauter.There´s just no need to go with a big crank.


So a stock crank is suitable for a Turbo application? **** I might just put my type 4 in like originally planned if that's the case.......

Wally January 7th 2012 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotsauce (Post 82815)
So a stock crank is suitable for a Turbo application? **** I might just put my type 4 in like originally planned if that's the case.......

Yes, of course. I used a stock 2 ltr unit and got 220 hp, then with ratio rockers and still stock cam, stock pistons, (but with single HD springs) I got 270 hp...

Hermann from South Africa got 400 hp from his 2 ltr, like 10 years ago.
Of course, I could hardy believe it and certainly didn't understand it, but if you know tuning and turbo engines and what makes them tick, you can make any platform fast. Since the type 4 is a VERY strong engine to begin with and cools really well, it is an excellent platform to do so.
This is what I was trying to convey the other day, but got a 'good day to you sir' in the end...:(

hotsauce January 7th 2012 17:57

Sounds like I need to set some time aside and read your entire mythbuster thread...... thanks for the advice Wally! (And sorry to hijack your thread)


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