Ways to reduce lift?
 

I am looking for ways to reduce front and rear lift on my Ghia.

I understand that at 100mph it PRODUCES 160# of lift force in the front and 70# of lift force in the rear.

My goal is to reduce those numbers/create downforce without a Fokker Tri-plane wing on the rear of my Ghia. Don't want to kill my sexy lines, or hydroplane in the wet as easily, loose control and stuff it into the wall...VERY BAD DAY THEN.

Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin J Hale

1. raise your rear suspension 1/2" and lower your front 1/2".

2. mount a front lower spoiler to prevent air from going under the car

3. rear spoilers don't work below 100mph or so.

the goal is to have a front spoiler with 3" skirts hanging below
the sides inboard of the body. this creates a vacuum. the air
escapes through the rear under the engine. this is what nascar
and indy racers do. it is scientifically proven to work. or you could buy a ferrari....

the other option that will help is using little winglets on the front like on some of the sports cars in the Le Mans race... they create more down force on the front of the car.

Yeah, a front spoiler (go as low as you dare) with a splitter is the most effective mechanism for reducing front lift. At the rear you have to break up any laminar flow over the roof that will be generating lift. A discrete Remmelle style spoiler may be the best option.

What about managing the airflow under the vehicle better? I'm thinking of venting the rear valence and ducting airflow through it which should if it is set-up correctly reduce lift at the rear. Also, if there were a way to (it has to be somewhat asthetically pleasing) take air hitting the lower front fascia and duct it to vent through the hood ala Porsche 996 TT that would do a superb job of redirecting airflow and creating negative lift up front I think.

Any thoughts?

I understand that this may seem overkill for our lowly VW's, but I believe that this is something that would benefit anyone who drives their VW at higher than average speeds. People usingf their vehicles for track events such as myself would probably appreciate the added stability that less lift/more downforce provides.

The Ghia doesn't look that good with a 'Combat' spoiler kit on it :silly: So what options does the Ghia driver have? The Beetle guys have it relatively easy when it comes to the spoiler department.

I'll be accepting drawings for a front spoiler/splitter design for my Ghia. So come up with some good ones for me :D

Thanks in advance

Kevin J Hale

hello,
I assume porsche figured this problem out in the boxter when they added that spoiler that sticks out the back at highway speed. They are both the same shape, just different weight distribution

Bry

Hey CLKWRK,

How does your Ghia handle at higher speeds?

What do you have for suspension? That I feel is an important part of how these cars will ultimately handle.

My guess is that the suspension setup will get us close with the aerodynamics affecting the vehicles toward the end of the main straight (for the road racers among us) and the end of the strip (for the drag racers among us).

Thanks

Kevin J Hale

Hello,

My ghia has 2" shortened front beam, kyb gas-a-justs, adjusters, bugpack flipped sway bar and caster shims. In the back has the rear bugpack sway bar, bugpack coilovers.

It handles well at high speeds, but aproaching 200k, it starts to get a little squirly, I have tried to move as much equipment/weight into the nose as possible.

I think the decklid standoffs help spoil the lift, even though I dont like how they look, I'm tired of people on the highway pointing and mouthing "hey buddy, your trunk is open".

Bry

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Don't you just love good samaritans?

What if we commission Carbon Joe to create a new decklid for us that has a built in lip which after modeling (see your shiny turbo post for testing methods - sort of) would provide enough downforce or enough of a lift reduction to allow you to close your decklid.

What can we do for the front though?

The Ghia doesn't exactly have a conventional front fascia that lends itself to simple add-on spoilers. (I am by no means excluding anyone from this discussion by referring to the Ghia only, I just feel that Ghia owners have a tougher time with certain modifications to improve the looks and handling.) So it'll be alot more difficult to improve that area.

What do you think about extending the bumper back a little further and using it as a pseudo splitter/spoiler?

Give me your fax# CLKWRK and I'll send you a pic of what I'm talking about. I would post it here, but I've got a new Mac computer and my PC only scanner won't work with it:mad:

Kevin J Hale

The type 1 has so much frontal area it may as well be brick shaped. how about a front trunk lid that is flatter and lower. think slant nose porsche. the idea of venting from under the car out to the top is what nascar does with naca ducts. I use a naca duct in my right rear window that has 2 three inch ducts that feed my fire wall. it runs 30 degrees cooler, but in the summer months I still have to use my decklid stand offs. I also notice a handling difference at 90 mph with the decklid propped, but I dont know if its better or worse....:drunk:

That may work with the Beetles, but the Ghias curvaceous shape doesn't lend to a flat hood very well. It would be like Brittany Spears getting her headlights removed...just wouldn't look right.: :hurl:

The amount of lift stated in the first post really isn't that much is it? Just add more caster and make sure everything else is in good shape.

I have seen front spoilers on Ghias that were pretty indescrete. Carbon fiber could look real good there.

Ron

Would you happen to have any pics of Ghias with spoilers?

ghia with spoiler under bumper

that's pretty sweet.