McLaren Killer thoughts

So, I was talking to one of my friends at the bar last night, and I made the boast that, for the 1 000 000 USD one would spend on a McLaren F1 Road Car, a Karmann Ghia could be built to beat every performance parameter. Does anyone else think that it could be done? With a bank roll of 1 000 000 USD, could a ghia beat:

0-100kph/0-62mph: 3seconds
Skidpad: 1g
Topspeed: 400kph/250mph



My approach:

I would start with a '55 Ghia (since almost nothing Ghia would be left, might as well start with the best looking body), go tube chassis, mid-engine with a (highly) tuned 996TT engine, a 6 speed transaxle, 996 GT2 wheels and tires, 993 suspension, and PCCB brakes to keep the unsprung weight down.


Any thoughts? Could it be done? How would you approach it? No, I was drunk when I made the boast.

[matara]

The Bader racing Ghia gets you part of the way there for a third of the money:-

Price: 225,000 Euro or US$305k

0-100kph 4.4 secs

Top Speed: 186mph / 300kmh

http://www.bader-racing.de

[johnnyvee]

That is a sweet ride I like the wheels but they won't fit my car

Strictly speaking they didn't fit the Ghia either. Herr Bader had to flare the fenders a bit to fit the 8 inch wide wheels. The wheels are BBS (pretty sure) and I'm sure they could make a 7 inch version that would be easier to fit.

[zen]

top speed? given the KG aero challenges, i would have to go with NO unless they are changed so radically that it no longer even resembles a KG.

[volkdent]

Not a chance, the McLaren is a purpose built car, built by a race car builder, it sacrifices nothing, so the parameters you've mentioned are only a few of the ones to consider when you think about making a "similar" car.

Jason

[vwdmc16]

i think it is odd that eveyone says the ghia has large areodynamic issues but nobody can back that up with facts such a down force, up lift, vortex areas, or even a coeffeicient of drag!? drag bugs hae gotten above 150mph and not flipped over and into the beyond, yet the much more areodynamic ghia supposedly cant handle 110+mph?

there are some 10-11 second drag ghias that do hit 140+ and while they arent stock looking (they have a rear wing, whoopdy doo)they arent flipping over either.
you may be saying well hey they are just going that fast for a second or two, true but that is all the time is needed to crash a car at those speeds. those cars were also modified to go that fast and be able to handle it and the body does still look like a vw. so why cant you make a ghia capable of 150+mph for a sustained speed, its all in the suspension and removing the uplift these cars get. surely in all of the Fatherland there has been some guy that has succesfully made a 240+KPH Autobahn crusier.

all im getting at is that is hate when people say ghias cant be made areodynamically stable to do high speeds, that is BS

Originally Posted by volkdent

the McLaren is a purpose built car, ..., it sacrifices nothing...Jason

I don't suppose you would just trust me if I said, as an engineer, that everything is a compromise.

To wit, the aerodynamics of the McLaren were a comprimise with the cooling of the car. The McLaren overheats quite readily in hot weather (Road and Track overheated one twice in a day when it borrowed one).

[j.p.]

Just buy an ARIEL ATOM with the supercharged Honda and retire with the money you will save . Ghia 0-62 yes 1g skidpad -yes closing in on 200mph club -not very likely but real performance only happens from 0-100-0.

[volkdent]

Originally Posted by vwdevotee

I don't suppose you would just trust me if I said, as an engineer, that everything is a compromise.

To wit, the aerodynamics of the McLaren were a comprimise with the cooling of the car. The McLaren overheats quite readily in hot weather (Road and Track overheated one twice in a day when it borrowed one).

True enough, everything IS a compromise, but that's a basic fact of life. I'm just saying in regards to performance on a paved surface, the McLaren didn't have many. The 1940's Volkswagen design has PLENTY, that being my point.

I've seen bugs flip over from apparently nothing during a drag race, they are not stable. Anyone see the PINKS episode? I've seen it a few times in person at Sacramento Raceway, just the littlest gust and those things go for a ride. Straight line speed in a controlled invironment is one thing, real world high speed driving is another. A Ghia is probably a better option for high speed, but like the quote above, to do it properly would take essentially a complete redesign.

Jason

[chris7ian]

Originally Posted by vwdevotee

a Karmann Ghia could be built to beat every performance parameter.


…(since almost nothing Ghia would be left, might as well start with the best looking body), go tube chassis, mid-engine with a (highly) tuned 996TT engine, a 6 speed transaxle, 996 GT2 wheels and tires, 993 suspension, and PCCB brakes to keep the unsprung weight down.

since your not using any of the ghia, why not start with a McLaren F1?

Originally Posted by vwdmc16

i think it is odd that eveyone says the ghia has large areodynamic issues but nobody can back that up with facts such a down force, up lift, vortex areas, or even a coeffeicient of drag!? drag bugs hae gotten above 150mph and not flipped over and into the beyond, yet the much more areodynamic ghia supposedly cant handle 110+mph?

there are some 10-11 second drag ghias that do hit 140+ and while they arent stock looking (they have a rear wing, whoopdy doo)they arent flipping over either.
you may be saying well hey they are just going that fast for a second or two, true but that is all the time is needed to crash a car at those speeds. those cars were also modified to go that fast and be able to handle it and the body does still look like a vw. so why cant you make a ghia capable of 150+mph for a sustained speed, its all in the suspension and removing the uplift these cars get. surely in all of the Fatherland there has been some guy that has succesfully made a 240+KPH Autobahn crusier.

all im getting at is that is hate when people say ghias cant be made areodynamically stable to do high speeds, that is BS

The Bader Ghia reached 168MPH (270kph) before the journalist I read about got scared.

[Cohibra45]

Here is a link to someone who races Ghias and has a little more input as to the aerodynamics of the Beetle and also Ghia.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=115568

Barret Camper has a lot of racing experience and knows from that experience and trial and error.

I tend to agree with Volksdent that everything is a compromise, but with enough money and more importantly cojones, it can be made fast and quick, but I doubt that it would ever make it to 200mph or above !!!

Take care and Happy New Years,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

Originally Posted by vwdevotee

The Bader Ghia reached 168MPH (270kph) before the journalist I read about got scared.

Correction: 186mph (~300kph)