Ceramic brakes!

[Typ Vier]

There you go, you've done it. High speed grinding, washing the particles off with lots of water. So you think they are safe to use???:
Do what you want, but don't be a danger to other road users. Note the attached PORSCHE technical data referring to brake wear limit.

[yetibone]

Wally, you're an inspiration to me. I love it when people do things that others call impossible.

Keep the innovations coming!

[Wally]

Today I test fitted the disks and calipers on the existing M030 spindles. The 350mm disks still fitted easily in the 18" rims

[Sandeep]

Badass for sure ! :haveadrin

Sandeep

It looks incredible.



It looks like the surface is different from factory. Did you grind off a surface coat? How wil that effect your brake life/performance?

Like I said though, it looks incredible.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by vwdevotee

It looks like the surface is different from factory. Did you grind off a surface coat?

As I understood from the company that only does ceramic machining, there is/was no surface coating. The surface is super smooth again, but like I mentioned before, it just is diffcult to capture by (flash)photogragh

There really is only one way to find out if it works

I just meant that the grains now look a lot larger than the factory surface. Good luck with your tests, just make sure your seatbelt is tight, and your insurance is paid up (God forbid anything should happen).

[krukab]

I think the first place where Wally is going to test them, is on the track

From what I've read, that would be a bad plan. The factory doesn't recommend these for track because the thermal conductivity is really low compared with iron, and the heat destroys them REALLY fast. Apparently most people bought these and are not saddled with 10 000 USD repair bills after a few track sessions. Is that perhaps where Wally got his?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by vwdevotee

From what I've read, that would be a bad plan. The factory doesn't recommend these for track because the thermal conductivity is really low compared with iron, and the heat destroys them REALLY fast. Apparently most people bought these and are not saddled with 10 000 USD repair bills after a few track sessions. Is that perhaps where Wally got his?

Yes, you are totally right: they suck, don't brake well, are unsafe on the road and especially on the track and in general just a very bad idea.
This is all before I even tried it.
Whatever...

[volkdent]

While it's true that these don't work well for track applications on the cars they come on, on a light car like the bug I suspect there won't be issues with too much thermal breakdown. A lot of guys do take them off after suffering issues due to track usage, maybe that IS why they were available, but they should be overkill for the bug.

What pads are you going to end up using? Are there specific ceramic pads that need to be used?

Jason

[Wally]

Originally Posted by volkdent

While it's true that these don't work well for track applications on the cars they come on, on a light car like the bug I suspect there won't be issues with too much thermal breakdown.

Exactly! Not everybody sees the whole picture or so it seems.

A lot of guys do take them off after suffering issues due to track usage, maybe that IS why they were available,

True again; their loss, my opportunity as I saw it

but they should be overkill for the bug.

How can less unsprung weight be ever 'overkill'?
As stated earlier, I just used the (smaller) rear ones on the front, so the brake action in that respect is not likely to be overkill either...

What pads are you going to end up using? Are there specific ceramic pads that need to be used?

Jason

No, as far as I could trace down, there are certain Pagid types that they come with as stock, but those are used on steel disks too. A softer than stock pad for the PCCB type 1 is usually recommended to enhance disk life for the type1 PCCB disks. There is a special tad bit softer race Pagid pad for this as well, but they are very expensive too. That leaves your very spot-on remark about the (huge) difference in weight, so I'll try another OEM (but very affordable) stock pad for these to see how it goes. I can always buy the expensive pads later if these don't work well for whatever reason. At least the disks are now good for another 300.000 km

[volkdent]

"{How can less unsprung weight be ever 'overkill'?
As stated earlier, I just used the (smaller) rear ones on the front, so the brake action in that respect is not likely to be overkill either...}"

Ooops, I mean too much brake, not too light. I think the light is AWESOME, especially on a light car like ours, the weight reduction alone is reason to do the conversion you are doing. It's more brake than you'll ever use, but less weight is ALWAYS good thing. What I thought was overkill for both reasons was that guy that was putting Cayenne brakes on his chassis, those suckers are heavy AND too much brake!

I do have to say though, the thickness of the rotors should be close to minimum spec that Porsche quotes, if they are too thin they actually could shatter. I saw footage of a Corvette C6R explosion of the rotor, it wasn't pretty...

Jason

[ricola]

Wally,
Any idea when you will be in a position to try them out? Looking forward to the verdict!
Rich

[Wally]

Originally Posted by ricola

Wally,
Any idea when you will be in a position to try them out? Looking forward to the verdict!
Rich

Well, the car is still with his *ss up in the air awaiting the further modified tranny and an engine.
I have bled the brakes and the disks and calipers are very nice aligned right now (which was a big question mark at first too!).
There is a 1/4 mile track meeting on May 18th over here, so I hope to have tried and tested the brakes by then. Maybe just with a stock 2 liter engine (the riechert one) first as the turbo engine may take a tad bit longer to be completed.

I actually think these rear brakes will be less brake force than the 304x32 disks and M030/928S front calipers I had before. These yellow rear ones up front really have smallish cups (30/28 iirc), even compared to the 993 rear calipers (34/30) I have in the...rear
Hence the installation of the Tilton brake bias valve I have installed now with the new set-up. Depending on the bias, I may even use smaller rears (964 C2's?) afterwards.
I did think this through just a little bit you know