Ethanol in a VW motor

[V.waffe 3]

Hey folks,

I was curious if anyone knows if you can run E85 ethanol in a stock VW or if there are some modifications that could be made to do so. Out here in middle America we have pretty cheap ethanol supply. I have heard it is around 93 octane? I have also heard that ethanol is pretty big in Brazil. If you guys have any ideas please let me know.

[1500SBR]

Hey V.
I'm from Brazil. My GL is a sole alcohol burner (we have what is called hidrated alcohol, has a bit of water in it). From what I understand E85 has 15% of gasoline, which should make it pretty good to use it. What I know is for our kind of alcohol, I guess your is a tad less forgiving (because of the little sip of gas in it).

Just for refference, i have a 1914, dual 44, W110 cam, 40X35 heads...bla,bla,bla

Compression is the first difference. My car runs 13:1. If the engine was stock (given the bugs old design) this should be 10,5:1 (modern engines run 12,5). I'm doing a few changes in my engine now (bigger cam) and along with that will go with 14:1. So you get the picture.

Then you need more fuel, consumption is much higher. Carburator needles have to be bigger (my dual Weber 44 use 250 needles) and an electric fuel pump. Idles are 85, mains are 200 and airs are 210. The Etubes have to be richer too. I use F3s.

Timming is different too. I start with 16 and advance it to 32.

Alcohol has less energy in it, so it is ****ty if you don't have the compression bump, there are no advantages. It is awesome for turbo. To give you an idea there are guys running completely stock 1600 (with a gasoline CR) and nasty turbo systems. I know of a specif one that makes 326fwhp on a bone stock motor running 30psi, that without an intercooler. (it is a modern Kombi engine, the ones which stopped production a few months ago).

So, if you build an E85 engine, that's cool, if you convert (carbs only, without CR), there is nothing to gain. If you go turbocharged, then you guys will start understanding what turbos can really do. And all of a sudden a 326 stock 1600 won't sound so crazy....

Best regards,
Marcelo

[vwdmc16]

326 hp out of 1600cc? say what!

how the life on those huh?

sure your not burning rings off or having heads walk off?

[1500SBR]

We get that a lot VWDMC.

They don't burn rings (how do you do that anyways??) and they will throw the heads out, if built on an old style engine. As you know the aircooled engine was produced in Brazil up until a couple of months ago. Since I don't know when, they have been a little better, and strong enough to withstand 30psi of boost (depending on compressor size) if correctly tuned.

One guy managed the 326 FWHP on a otherwise stock 1600 engine, running only a set of twin 32 throttle bodies with 8 injectors (which we allow it to pass as stock since the engines did come of the line with twin 32 cards in Brazil and later MPFI with a single throttle body, so it is a mixture of both - the extra 4 injectors, well that's just what it take to feed the bastard).

But many guys manage something like 280, 300...

It is funny you ask how is the life on those, but we in general don't seem to build 100.000 mile cars. It is more of a build it, drive for awhile, upgrade it, drive some more... so I don't know how long they will last. Probably won't last an endurance race, but then again it is not an endurance race engine. It will last a few gearboxes, clutches, broken axles, and sets of tires on the street.

The reason I mention these turbo engines is because we have been running the turbo fever ever since 1976 when alcohol came out. We have come a long way on developing these engines.

The problems and fears I hear you guys having today (such as modifying carb seals for blow through turbos, burned this, burned that) where the ones we had in the past and learned to deal with them.

I wish I could help my fellow hot rodders. Turbos are a lot of fun.

My Vw Dud is not turbo though, and that's because in Brazil to be different, you have to run dual carbs on a normally aspirated engine. Everyone runs turboed EFI.
My dayly driver though is a stock Opel Astra with a turbo kit. 300hp on an otherwise stock motor with 10psi....30.000 miles so far, only broken clutches and 2 sets of rubber.

Best regards,
Marcelo

[vwdmc16]

Hey you might be able to get quite a business going if you set up kits for turbo 1600s on ethanal and sell it to the U.S. since we always want more power.

I hope to hear some more developments from you soon

cheers

[1500SBR]

Hey VWDMC,

Do you want to do that, me and you? I'll send you the kits and you sell them over there. How much money you think a person would be willing to spend on a kit?

What do you think this kit should have, besides the manifold, BOV, WG, and up and down pipes? I mean, do you think it should include the injection, clutch, intercooler....

Let me know.
Regards,
Marcelo