What is your definition of the Germanlook style?

[volkdent]

I think of GL as being more modern, more cutting edge, which Porsche often leads, and of course they've switched to water cooling to keep up. Water cooling fits right into my idea of GL because without it long term reliability with big power is near impossible. My idea of the concept of this site is to showcase cars that can keep up with modern cars, not only in performance numbers, but also longevity.

Jason

[Wally]

Originally Posted by volkdent

I think of GL as being more modern, more cutting edge, which Porsche often leads, and of course they've switched to water cooling to keep up. Water cooling fits right into my idea of GL because without it long term reliability with big power is near impossible.
Jason

'To keep up' with...what exactly?
To keep with your example: Porsche only switched to watercooling because of environmental (read: noise, emission) reasons, not for longlivity reasons. I think they made some extremely potent aircooled engines, proving to us that watercooling is not necessary to keep 'long term reliability'.
I kinda followed porsche's idea's and can report they were right

If anyone really feels watercooling is engineering progress (there is certainly a point there), why don't they use the waterboxer as the next step? Subaru, Honda, Alfa engines all seem to be used solely to get a bit more power from OEM engines, so they didn't need to think about designing/tuning that part (the engine) themselves...
Calling it 'engineering progress' afterwards is just wrong therefore imo.

But I love all of you guys as fellow gearheads anyways, so don't sweat it
Walter

[NO_H2O]

You can guess from my screen name were I fall in the air/water cooled debate. But that is a personal choice.
What defines German Look to me? It is a simple question. If Porsche had built a Beetle (or Bus, or type 3, or Ghia, etc), what would it be? = German Look. If they had offered an RS, RSR or GT version. What would it be? = Bad A$$ German Look.

[wrenchnride247]

Originally Posted by NO_H2O

You can guess from my screen name were I fall in the air/water cooled debate. But that is a personal choice.
What defines German Look to me? It is a simple question. If Porsche had built a Beetle (or Bus, or type 3, or Ghia, etc), what would it be? = German Look. If they had offered an RS, RSR or GT version. What would it be? = Bad A$$ German Look.

^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^

[Axl]

I think a built-up air cooled engine is awesome , and I have no problems with using one , but when talking power and reliability , my personal choice would be a scooby engine just because you don't have to do any mods to reach 300HP , and therefore are not comprimising any reliability . Also , being a wayer cooled car , its easier to heat the interior with a heater core . That may not mean much to some of you in the lower 50 , but where I live , warm weather doesn't last too long . As I said before , its a matter of opinion .

[Jim]

If VW have ever decided to evolution an aircooled engine during the past years.............. then it would definatelly be a Subaru boxer

[TSAF]

Originally Posted by Jim

If VW have ever decided to evolution an aircooled engine during the past years.............. then it would definatelly be a Subaru boxer

Not a chance. If that was the case then why the new beetle has a 4 cylinder in line watercooled engine and not a subaru boxer. Even for marketing sake a subaru boxer would have been more appropriate due to the sound and all but it didnt happen. May be they know something we don't.

[Jim]

Toyota has nothing to do with the germanlook definition,I'm just share my thought on MX67's post ...if this is not a problem...

[MX67]

I think we should leave that politics about whick automaker is using which engine. It's about cutting costs. Perriod. Advertising is seccond reason. Perriod.

And what is German Look then?

German Look is scene which continued with Beetle evolution when Volkswagen had to gave up.

German Look is making of GT3 or GT2 out of Beetle respecting Porsche philosophy.

[NO_H2O]

Everyone has a different view of what GL is. That is the cool thing about it. I can see that the flat 4 Suby is a fit in some ways (flat 4, rooted in German design) though it was never offered by VW. I can see the type 4 in one though it only came in a Bus/411/412 from VW but does have a connection to Porsche in the 914/912E. Some like body trim and some do not. Water is 8.5 lbs per gallon. Add water = add weight, add audio system = add weight, add anything (big wheels/tires, huge brakes) = add weight. Every action has a reaction. Does the reaction justify the action. That is what we all figure out as we plan our projects. How far we move from the core and how far we stretch what is "German" will differ.
There are many VW fanatics who say the Golf was the death of the real VW and many Porsche fanatics who say that the 993 was the last real Porsche. For these fanatics, there is no changing that view.
We own car from back in the day when one side of the family (VW) made plain cars for the masses and the other side of the family (Porsche) produced racing cars that wowed people and dominated their classes at races like Le Mans. As German Look fanatics, we want to blur that line between VW and Porsche and build cars that will shock people when they are beaten by a Beetle. We all (German Look fanatics) love it when the underdog lays the smackdown on the conceded one with the pedigree. That is the common bond for us. That is why most of us are here. We are all a bit different and our methods may differ but we all want to lay the smackdown on the pretty one with the pedigree and look mean doing it.

[Axl]

So , hypothetically speaking , I take a beetle and decide to put a waterboxer from a vanagon in it . Its still a VW engine , but according to the arguments made , not being aircooled means its not a VW . What are the thoughts on that!

[NO_H2O]

Did I say that? I can see the Suby mill in a GL. I'm not ready to do it, but I would not tell anyone not to. I see the connection to it. It's a flat 4 with German ties. I say do it and do it right. It's just not for me. But I do respect the Suby conversion, the STI version is a powerhouse. Some folks are diehard aircooled, I am one of those folks. But my way is not the only way and I know it.

[TSAF]

Originally Posted by NO_H2O

Some folks are diehard aircooled, I am one of those folks. But my way is not the only way and I know it.

Count me in please

[oasis]

Originally Posted by TSAF

Count me in please

I hope that includes the part, "But my way is not the only way and I know it."

That is a lot more civil and accepting than "must have" and "end of story" from your first post.

I can go to a 300-car car show and walk away saying I wouldn't own 295 of them. But I bet I appreciate at least 200 of them.

Everyone has their preferences. I would hate to see differences in preferences escalate into something where folks aren't welcome or at least would find this site no fun to attend. I saw that at another site. In the end, there were no winners. Just losers. And hurt feelings.

[volkdent]

Originally Posted by oasis

I hope that includes the part, "But my way is not the only way and I know it."

That is a lot more civil and accepting than "must have" and "end of story" from your first post.

I can go to a 300-car car show and walk away saying I wouldn't own 295 of them. But I bet I appreciate at least 200 of them.

Everyone has their preferences. I would hate to see differences in preferences escalate into something where folks aren't welcome or at least would find this site no fun to attend. I saw that at another site. In the end, there were no winners. Just losers. And hurt feelings.

Amen