Bonze Main Bearings

[effvee]

Originally Posted by Bad bug

I have 3 engines to build a t1 2ltr something a t4 2056cc or 2316 maybe a 2.7ltr then finally a 2.1ltr waterboxer. These guys need to get off their asses and do what they are doing who
cares what the other is doing, we need quality bearings.

I would like to have bronze bearings. I had to have the main bearing modded due to the oil squirters. Since the oil squirter are not standard on the type IV main bearings, the machinst kind of bucthed the main bearings creating the offset hole.

[Type4Unleashed]

Hi effvee

So that it's clear, EMW is having only the thrust bearings made in bronze, not complete sets.

And I believe Engine Plus carries the 356 style lifters for the Type lV...

[Bad bug]

Ah! so this is the center main then. I do hope that they will be made with the correct crush. Who knows maybe later they will produce an entire set.

[Type4Unleashed]

Originally Posted by Bad bug

Ah! so this is the center main then. I do hope that they will be made with the correct crush. Who knows maybe later they will produce an entire set.

No, the thrust bearings on the Type lV are on the flywheel end and are where the end play is set between the flywheel and bearing with flywheel shims, the center mains are already steel backed so no need to do those in bronze, center thrust are installed on Type 1 motors when flanged cranks are used.

But you have to be careful now, the I think it's Mahle bearings that have been coming out for the Type lV are no longer steel back center mains.

It's not only the correct crush, but the materials expansion rates, a bronze thrust bearing was made and the wrong combination of materials were used and the bearing expanded too much and sized on the crank.

So it's a matter of finding the right combination of materials to get the correct expansion rate. For example valve guides are made of bronze, actually silicon bronze.

[effvee]

Originally Posted by Type4Unleashed

No, the thrust bearings on the Type lV are on the flywheel end and are where the end play is set between the flywheel and bearing with flywheel shims, the center mains are already steel backed so no need to do those in bronze, center thrust are installed on Type 1 motors when flanged cranks are used.

But you have to be careful now, the I think it's Mahle bearings that have been coming out for the Type lV are no longer steel back center mains.

It's not only the correct crush, but the materials expansion rates, a bronze thrust bearing was made and the wrong combination of materials were used and the bearing expanded too much and sized on the crank.

So it's a matter of finding the right combination of materials to get the correct expansion rate. For example valve guides are made of bronze, actually silicon bronze.

Me again, I now have heard another way to go is with BMW bearings. Can you shed some light on this? From what I have heard all of the bearing will be halves and using BMW steelbacked bearings; as an update/better mouse trap.

When I had my case done, my bearings cam all Alum.

[effvee]

Originally Posted by effvee

Me again, I now have heard another way to go is with BMW bearings. Can you shed some light on this? From what I have heard all of the bearing will be halves and using BMW steelbacked bearings; as an update/better mouse trap.

When I had my case done, my bearings cam all Alum.

Ok, now I have learned that, only a type IV case using stadard bearing, can use the BMW bearings. I was told that I will need to stick with stock 20 over bearing.

[effvee]

Originally Posted by Type4Unleashed

Hi effvee

So that it's clear, EMW is having only the thrust bearings made in bronze, not complete sets.

And I believe Engine Plus carries the 356 style lifters for the Type lV...

Hay Richard, I put off to long the 356 lifters money problems () no one seems to have them in the states. I hope you have not forgot me and Engine Plus. I have a machinst friend that will try and make me a complete set. I have a stock .020 over set in regular meterial. What I need is a good choice in Bonze alloy. I was looking for Beryillum, but I have learned that is copper. Richard, do you know of any Bonze that will make a good set of bearings?



My machinst made these for me with ease on a regular lath.
If I can get my hands on a good set of 356 lifters can your guy laser them for me? Stay in touch, good to hear from you.

[Type4Unleashed]

Originally Posted by effvee

Hay Richard, I put off to long the 356 lifters money problems () no one seems to have them in the states. I hope you have not forgot me and Engine Plus. I have a machinst friend that will try and make me a complete set. I have a stock .020 over set in regular meterial. What I need is a good choice in Bonze alloy. I was looking for Beryillum, but I have learned that is copper. Richard, do you know of any Bonze that will make a good set of bearings?

My machinst made these for me with ease on a regular lath.
If I can get my hands on a good set of 356 lifters can your guy laser them for me? Stay in touch, good to hear from you.

No, I remember your issue with E Plus...

As to the Beryllium Copper that is used for valve seats for Titanium valves, it's like around 80% copper with something like 3% Beryllium and 17% of other materials for example to hold the materials together.

My friend no longer works at the EDM shop, he has moved back to Germany. And lasers were not used, it was an electrical charge (Electrical Discharge Machining) on little tiny copper rods or wire.

As to the 356 style lifters, I recommend you pass on those for your Turbo build, the spring pressure needed for boost I think is to much for those lifters.

I recommend you have your bronze lifter bushings machined out to Type 1 lifter diameter and run Tool Steel Type 1 lifters, they will handle the spring pressure and Turbo Spool far better than the 356 style lifters. There are a number of people who carry them.

I liked your cyl's, except for the stud pattern. And your going to need to mock those up on your motor, and I am talking about the crank installed at least one rod per side to determine how much they will have to be shortened to set your deck, due to they need to be machined before you have them plated.

[effvee]

I'll say one thing that I didn't like with my cylinders. Jorge had the Machinst trim my fins. I did not instruct Jorge to trim my fines

[Type4Unleashed]

Originally Posted by effvee

I'll say one thing that I didn't like with my cylinders. Jorge had the Machinst trim my fins. I did not instruct Jorge to trim my fines

You did say fix the cyl's so their usable, since you were not taking them back to the machinist who screwed them up to begin with, and the fins had to be cut in order for you to use them.


If you had tried to mock up the cyl's with the studs you would have found the problem. Jorge had asked me to mock them up on my case to check for any issues with mounting and becase my case was cut for 103mm cyl's and it had the long stroker studs installed.


There are a left & right cyl, the left cyl fit no. 2 & no. 3 cyl position, the right cyl will fit the no. 1 & 4 cyl position in the case, that is partially because of the where the fins are cut so they can sit next to each other and the other side where the notch is to clear the case, then there is also because of the well know fact that the Type lV has the off set stud pattern of which the bottom 2 studs are wider than they are at the top, which means the cyl's can not be fliped upside down .

Your machinist that had drilled the stud holes and trimmed the cyl's for clearance made you 4 left cyl's, and the only fix was to machine all the cyl fins the same so they would fit the stud pattern and have the capacity to cool the same.

[effvee]

I have not fitted the cylinders with studs. Since I have not done this yet, I may stand corrected. I received the stud pattern from Gregg Riddle, and had a blue print made in order for a CNC progarmmer to input. If what you say is correct, I will need to have a mechine shop do 8 more sets (bummer). I will get some ARP bolts and go to the next level.

Richard, you once gave me a name of a rebuilder of speed-o and tach. I tried to find the contact again but don't remember the name. He makes custom gauge face plates. Do you still have or remember his name or site?

[effvee]

"As to the 356 style lifters, I recommend you pass on those for your Turbo build, the spring pressure needed for boost I think is to much for those lifters".

Richard, am I to understand the new 39 gram 356 styled lifter won't be able to withstand the spring rate?

[effvee]

Originally Posted by Type4Unleashed

My friend no longer works at the EDM shop, he has moved back to Germany. And lasers were not used, it was an electrical charge (Electrical Discharge Machining) on little tiny copper rods or wire..

Richard is it possible for me to go to the shop your friend use to work and have them perform the service on my new lifters. I'd really like to have the lifters drilled (with EDM) like I had the 356 lifters done.

[Type4Unleashed]

I don't think it's necessary and I don't recommend it. And if you go with the Tool Steel Type 1 lifters, just leave them alone. They are not broke, so don't fix them.

And I have seen a couple sets of Type 1 lifters that went bad and it looked like it was because of the oiling hole ?

But if you have to have it done, any EDM shop can do it.

http://www.qualityedm.com/

http://www.manta.com/cmap/mryctbd/reliable-e-d-m

[effvee]

Originally Posted by Type4Unleashed

I don't think it's necessary and I don't recommend it. And if you go with the Tool Steel Type 1 lifters, just leave them alone. They are not broke, so don't fix them.

And I have seen a couple sets of Type 1 lifters that went bad and it looked like it was because of the oiling hole ?

But if you have to have it done, any EDM shop can do it.

http://www.qualityedm.com/

http://www.manta.com/cmap/mryctbd/reliable-e-d-m

Hi Richard, well you know me, I'm still batting zero, but what the hay. With all of the oil pressure my oil pump will be capable of putting out having extra oil for lobs and rockers I don't think will hurt anything. My PSI regulator will be set for 80 I don't want that oil pump 33 or 35mm just bi-passing oil back into the sump. I'll have the lifter resurface for sure, thanks.