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#1
February 2nd 2005, 23:42
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there is one setup for replacing the torsion bars on a standard
with a freemoving bar and coil overs in replacement of the stock shocks... Alex was going to use this kit on his Split... 
__________________
WinterJam 2010: Vdub, Surf, Skate & Musis Fest WinterJam 2010 'I drive way to fast to worry about cholesterol!' '67 Sunroof Notchback * '68 FI Squareback 
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#2
February 3rd 2005, 00:43
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that coilover kit lets the springs do 100% of the work. No torsion bar. Are the shock towers strong enough for it though? I guess a cross brace would fix it. It looks like we need a showdown. Here's how I think each car would be set up.
The super: -High performance struts (Maxx struts?) -Bigger sway bar(front) The standard: -Independent rear (exactly like the super) -The front coilover kit shown above -Front sway bar -wheel spacers (to match the track width of the super) Is there anything I forgot? I know that more could be done to the rear. However, it shouldn't matter as long as there equal. The purpose of this test would be to compare fully modified versions of each of the two front suspensions, so equal tire sizes should be used. I think this shootout would be REALLY close. The suspension geometry may be a little better on the super at this point, but the standard would still have the weight advantage, and coilovers now. Also, I noticed some comments on how the extra weight of the super made it feel better (less floaty) in the corners. Isn't this a downforce issue? Is there a way to get enough downforce on these cars to take the floatiness away...even in the most extremely weight reduced beetles, standard or super? By the way, I'm really enjoying everyone's feedback concerning this topic. This has been very imformative for me so far. Thanks guys!!! I hope we can get to the bottom of this.
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#3
February 3rd 2005, 00:50
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#4
February 3rd 2005, 09:24
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a roof spoiler will also help the rear of the car from getting light at
speeds
__________________
WinterJam 2010: Vdub, Surf, Skate & Musis Fest WinterJam 2010 'I drive way to fast to worry about cholesterol!' '67 Sunroof Notchback * '68 FI Squareback
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#5
February 3rd 2005, 12:51
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Hey everybody. (especially Zen) What are the chances of setting up a little challenge between the two cars? Could we get a stock standard and a stock super, do the above mentioned mods, and see what they'll do? Or are there already two members who have cars that would work? Maybe topline or red9design (sp?) would even sponsor the event by letting us use or borrow some parts. It's just a thought, but it sure would be a neat thing to see. It would certainly make my mind up on what to start with for my GL.
Matt F.
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#6
February 4th 2005, 02:01
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The macpherson strut suspension is superior to the parallel trailing arms. The problem isnt really with the torsion bars itself (they are still used on a lot of european small cars in the rear) but the way the wheel moves.
Thats not to say a beam front end can't handle well and go fast, it'll just never be as good as a strut setup.
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Jon
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#7
February 4th 2005, 04:02
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Meanwhile back at the unladen weights ... according to the 1975 owner's manual, a standard weighs 1,973 lbs. and a Super weighs 2,072 lbs. -- a 99 lb. difference.
The 1971 owner's manual lists the weights as 1,807 and 1,918, respectively -- a 111 lb. difference. A 1967 standard weighs 1,764 lbs. according to its owner's manual. The only way there could be a 500 lb. difference would be if one compares a 1952 split window to a 1975 Super -- and that would be assuming the '52 was a svelt 1,572 lbs. Under those apples and oranges comparisons, a '71 Super weighs 55 lbs. less than a '75 standard. And now back to the never-ending debate and the challenge to begin all challenges ...
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#8
February 7th 2005, 20:48
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#9
February 7th 2005, 22:15
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__________________
WinterJam 2010: Vdub, Surf, Skate & Musis Fest WinterJam 2010 'I drive way to fast to worry about cholesterol!' '67 Sunroof Notchback * '68 FI Squareback
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#11
February 12th 2005, 10:34
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Im not really sure which would beat either, but you know that with a good driver, a car can do some amazing things. I drive a super, and i do love the way it corners, however i have also driven a standard and also love the way it handled. Of course i loved mine better, its mine and its on coilovers, but i think that a standard with coilovers would be a very nice mountain road machine.
__________________
If god had meant people to walk, whyd he invent cars?
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#12
February 12th 2005, 14:26
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Standards can handle pretty good. I just got a puma adjustable beam, and I seam welded the shock towers. Urethane shock bushings and kyb gr2's work good up front. I have a 17mm sway away irs sway bar in the rear, and a 17mm baR in the front. The beam is good as long as you keep it greased!
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#13
February 6th 2005, 07:26
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@ Joe: good choise on the '75 03 Just took mine out for a first test drive and with the now installed Topline sway bar and their urethane front suspension bushings (the lot) and boy does it handle. It doesn't feel scary anymore to drive 180 km/h (which is a scary thought also actually) Regards, Walter
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#14
March 23rd 2005, 01:08
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Oh and I think It all depends on the Suspention of the Bugs. But... My Bug is a super and it out corners any modern car anyday!
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