stock looking performance exhaust.

[redhot]

The Vintage speed is similar to that of Klaus tuning, CSP and many others. Looking at some pictures it seems that they hang pretty low, reducing the clearance to the ground.
But a merged system that still exits out the rear cut-outs is not that available. I would love a design like the CSP supercompetition for a type4 engine. This also removes the large mufflers to the wheel arches, meaning not problems with clearance.

Perhaps someone would chime in with some exhaust theory: does it really matter that much on an close to stock 914 2.0 engine?

[evilC]

Originally Posted by redhot

Perhaps someone would chime in with some exhaust theory: does it really matter that much on an close to stock 914 2.0 engine?

The best ehaust for a street/semi-competition motor is a 4-2-1 with 30"+ primaries and similar secondaries depending on the state of tune. However, the architecture of the flat 4 boxer engine doesn't lend itself to this sort of design so you get the compromise 4-1 layout with a merged collector at best. At least CSP and the like have got the 4-2-1 concept firmly in their blood to attempt it on the VW flat 4 engine but the spaghetti pipework has to be an expensive work of art. A 4-2-1 arrangement should give a more flexible engine that may be down 1 or 2 bhp on the 4-1 unit but that flexibility shows itself in A-B times and economy.

Clive

[vdubzack]

A better flowing exhaust will make a difference, even on a near stock 2.0 It's enhanced flow will allow for cooler head temps and lower the chance for dropping valve seats.

[vdubzack]

Originally Posted by kakarottt

Turns out that in the state of Maryland, It is illegal to have any sort of exhaust modifications.. So I need to find a stock looking exhaust for my 2110. Or at least an exhaust that sticks out the stock holes or is relatively hidden.. Any suggestions?

It is also illegal to lower or raise your car more than 2 inches.

Not actually illegal to have a modified exhaust.
But it has to be enclosed by body panels. So most Fat Boy and almost all merged exhaust systems will fail initial as the muffler is not below car but behind it. Plus if your 2110 is type 1 based i would go for this one,
http://store.vintagespeed.com.tw/ind...mart&Itemid=80
as the price and value is there. And for those( oh its Chinese junk ) people. there is a lot of stuff being manufactured there by companies that dont even no for what car they are making stuff for. These guys are enthusiasts. and test and run everey thing they make.

[redhot]

So; how does the original Porsche systems work? It does not look like they are using the 4 into 1 systems most VW performance exhaust use, or do they have a collector inside the muffler? (both 914 and 911?)

[evilC]

Originally Posted by redhot

So; how does the original Porsche systems work? It does not look like they are using the 4 into 1 systems most VW performance exhaust use, or do they have a collector inside the muffler? (both 914 and 911?)

The porsche is a 6 cylinder engine so 4 - 1 cannot work As with most 6 cylinder engines the scavenging effect tends to work with the coupling of each set of adjacent cylinder so you should get 6 - 2 - 1 as shown in the photo. The same arrangement on 6 cylinders work whether its a straight 6 V6 or flat 6. On a 4 cylinder to get scavenging the cylinders are coupled 360* out so that on an inline 4 with a firing order of 1,3,4,2; 1 is coupled to 4 and 3 couple to 2. The same applies to V8s so that is why the exhaust plumbing ends up looking like spaghetti.
then you start to consider single plane crankshafts..............................

Clive

[spannermanager]

The meminger system is paired all wrong, its just bling in my eyes, looks nice enough, but probably has a huge hole somwhere in the rev range. must try harder, especialy for the $ they want for it . any one have a dyno plot for it?

[redhot]

So; if I understand right one should have 4-2-1 system that merge the 1,4 and 2,3 cylinders before merging the two of them again. Which does not easily apply to Beetles.

So; since most systems are 4-1, why is there no such merges system for the typ4 in a Beetle? I would really like the CSP supercompetion with the correct header/stub pies etc. Only negativ thing is that you divide the flow after the collector again - while Ahnendorp make a system that has one pipe all the length. For stock look one could add a dummy pipe I guess.

[Bruce.]

Dividing the flow after the collector is not a problem as long as the pipes are not too big (slows the air flow down allowing tumbling).
4-2-1 is ideal but mostly impractical/ expensive. it does add mid range torque but with a big t4 in a light bug torque is not usually a problem.

Mind you even 4-1 have a limited benefit on stock-ish engines.
The 1303 rally engines had a stock looking t1 exhaust (probably an empty silencer) and produced 125hp from 1600cc.

[evilC]

Originally Posted by Bruce.

................The 1303 rally engines had a stock looking t1 exhaust (probably an empty silencer) and produced 125hp from 1600cc.

I remember Peter Noad doing a test on his rally bug back in '70s with various exhaust options but maybe not the extensive range there is now. The overriding recollection was that the standard OG exhaust was remarkably efficient, although it was strangled in standard form by the peashooter tailpipes. Using some tuned tailpipes released a fair amount of hp with the best compromise being some taper tips with 1/2 silencer tubes that only increased the loudness a tad but liberated nearly all the hp.

Having seen the quality of current standard exhaust back boxes I don't think you could rely on the same results. Of course if anyone has an OG exhaust in good condition......

Clive

[al_kaholik]

The FI exhaust without the Cat is interesting, a large silencer with single big bore outlet. But then the heat exchangers are completely different on it too, so might not be such a great idea

[Bruce.]

BTW, I've seen the VintageSpeed exhausts and the quality is excellent. My borther bought one but it will not fit on his Rallybug as it hangs a little too low ("sump guard" in the way). So it will go on his '64 instead

I haven't seen it in action so can't comment on the performance but the quality of the welds, tailpipes etc is very good.

Note, the vintagespeed exhausts are not merged exhausts but as per my previous comment I think a fully merged collector can be overrated depending on the engine spec.

My family car is a 300bhp N/A estate and due to being RHD it doesn't have the fancy exhaust manifold pipework of the LHD version (steering column gets in the way).

The LHD version has 305bhp.

So the right sized pipework with max airspeed (not too small and not too large) can perform well and not lose too much over a merged collector. Of course, once you get crazy with ported heads, camshafts etc.... I suspect the extra draw of the collector can make a real difference.

[redhot]

I guess I`m back to the can-style exhaust - but the ones available for type4 in beetle seems rather bulky and large. The Memminger did look nice, but is not available though. So if anyone at CSP is here on this forum -please make a type4 version of the Supercometition as an alternative to the Python.

[redhot]

Hmmm;

CSP Supercompetition with a new header/stubs connection. Would be nice estethics if not anything else. If there was room...

[redhot]

Anyone tried a solution as the above? Similar exhausts available?

This is not top performance, but a basicly stock 2.0 Type 4 in a Beetle, which should look "original"