Super Suspension vs. Standard Weight

[mattfaulkner]

Oh...I didn't think standards varied in weight that much. Maybe my figure I got of the samba was wrong too. Well, 99 pounds is a lot less than 200. If that's the case, the super is looking better.

Matt F.

The weight difference is debatable, I've seen it listed as, from 100 to 500 pounds.

I am very biased here but I know for a fact that the Super will out do a Standard in handling. When I was in high school, me and my best friend both had Bugs that were set up exactly the same. Mine was a 1973 Super, his was a 1974 Standard. We both had stock motors and a lowered suspension with aluminum wheels and 195/50R15 tires. My car would literally leave him behind by 3 to 4 car lengths in the corners and the smaller turning radius of the Super made it easier to maneuver overall. We would even switch drivers and get the same results.

The other factors to consider are... that the Standard has a wider rear track (like almost all pre-70's cars) and the Super has a wider front track (like all post-70's cars). The Super has struts (like 99% of modern car designs) and the Standard has torsion bars (0% of modern car designs).

I've said it many times before, the Standard is a great car for straight-line drag racing and the Super was made for autocross/corners.

Opps, forgot to mention the best part... the Porsche 924/944 suspension was designed based on the Super's suspension, that should tell you something there. That's also why the 944 brakes are so easy to adapt to the Super.

[vujade]

matt that extra weight hurts in straight line performance but I actually
like it for handling performance...makes the car feel beefier in the turns
and not so fly away like an early standard...


I have a super for German Look and a standard for drag racing

[mattfaulkner]

Okay...here's something else. I've seen some guys running a coilover type setup on their standard beetles. I think turbonutta has them. Basically, it's just a spring mounted around the normal sized standard shock. I assume this gets rid of the torsion bars up front, and gives the car a semi-coilover suspension option. Anyway, would this set up, with an independent rear, beat a super? I'm not trying to defend the standard, just trying to look at all the options.

Superman: Those are some good points. I wish we had more head to head tests to go from.

[mattfaulkner]

Yeah, here's the picture. I hope the link works.

http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/att...achmentid=1224

[Pillow]

>Standard has torsion bars (0% of modern car designs).<

Hey now the 911 had torsion fronts until '89!... If it is considered a modern design, which is debatable in ways.

Or trucks! Lots of new heavy duty trucks still use torsion bar front ends... i think because it is the only way to handle really heavy load capacities.

As for the real question, I do not have a good answer either way.

[Lazarus]

hey dude i agree with vujade about the weight advantage in the corners. as far as straight line build a good strong engine with nitrous so if you plan to do some light to light its there when you need it .you know, the best of both worlds. the car handles in the turns, gets out of the corner pretty well and will suprise most if not all pretty fast street cars at the light. you dont have to win a drag race to get the respect you need/deserve , sometimes one good purge of the juice will scare away any would be threats .

Originally Posted by mattfaulkner

I'm not trying to defend the standard, just trying to look at all the options.

There is nothing wrong with looking into things and having a well planned project, that is the right thing to do.

There are several "debate" posts (here, STF, Samba, etc.) about the Super vs. Standard... but the [hard] thing to do [for an inexperienced reader] is to know what is fact and what is opinion.

Those "coil-over" shocks for the Standard aid the torsion bar front end, if I am correct because I've never really looked into that too much (being a "Super" kind of guy).


Basically, it doesn't matter what you do to the Standard front end, unless you widen the (front) track and decrease the turning radius, it will never be able to do what a Super does. This could be done with some wheel hubs and/or spacers plus a 'dune-buggy' type R&P steering rack.

Now let me close with this... I've watched many Käfer Cup videos and seen some Standards out race some Supers. Let's just say that "a Standard may not be able to out perform a Super (suspension wise), but it can be pretty darn close when the Standard's suspension is set up correct".