What does a fast VW really feel like?

[Eurolook71]

I was talking to some ricer boys in my Auto shop class, and up came the topic of drift racing. I metioned that it would be great to see an air-cooled vw in a drift competition. They laughed saying that old vws have too much understeer to pull this off. I thought that a vw would be a great car for drifting, since its rear wheel driven, and so light, that with a serious gearbox/drive train, some decent hp (say a 2L T4), and some serious suspension mods, this thing might turn circles all day long.

So do VWs suffer from great understeer, cause I know when drifting, oversteer is the idea to get around corners like a mad man. Are there ways to increase oversteer, like setting toe in/out, camber, etc...Ive seen a video of a very cool bug, doing circles with no problem, just begging to be drifted around a corner.

I just want to know what a VW bug can, and cant do.

[super vw]

Once you get the rear end loose on a beetle (or a porsche 911) its not hard to keep it going.... ya got all that swingweight back there to help it keep going.

But im not sure how well it would be for drift comp

[onixbonilla]

Your ricer friends are completely wrong(or afraid),on Beetle/911 oversteer are the name of the game.Some months ago there were a link that you can see silver Beetle drifting as good as anyone.Do not remember the link,if it was here or shoptalk forums.
Onix

[Bill K.]

A bug can be tweaked to handle either way -- over/under-steer. Aircooled.net has a good article on this -- http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/re...s/handling.htm.

Obviously, for drifting, you would set up the front to grip and the rear to slip.

Front grip = high neg. camber, toe out, softer sway bar than rear, more caster, high air pressure, wide tires

Rear slip = zero or positive camber, zero or toe out, super stiffer sway bar, low air pressure, narrow tires

Balancing the front and rear traction for controlled drift would be the trick.

[petevw]

Originally Posted by onixbonilla

Your ricer friends are completely wrong(or afraid),on Beetle/911 oversteer are the name of the game.
Onix

i agree,

i don't have any understeer problems. its all oversteer. even in low second gear 2500rpm, making a left through a intersection, and feathering the gas, the rear end will want to step out (right Sandeep ).

i have a 1/4 inch of toe out, 1_3/4 degrees of camber, and a 235 tire on the rear.

later,
pete

[67ghiaTIV]

I can vouch for that, my goodness what a great ride petevw. You make want to get back to the ghia project. Thanks again for a great ride.

Jamie

[starmember]

i`m building my bug to be a drifter. bugs can drift. a bug is hard to control but that is the challenge.

[Tim]

Here are some basic suspension tuning tips.

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index...v2&id=106&c=53

[Bill K.]

Thanks for the link Tim.

I don't get the air pressure relationship. Seems like higher pressure would result in less grip not more as the chart indicates...

Seems to me that:
More pressure = less contact patch = less grip.
More pressure = stiffer tire = less grip.

The chart calls for lower rear pressure to increase oversteer (less rear grip).

Can anyone clarify how front/rear pressure affects grip?

[miller]

Teaches you to listen to ricers. I could powerslide my stock 67 ghia and I can also get my 76 Jeep j-20 to do some pretty big drifts (I love locked rear ends). that just showes drifting isnt about the car its about the driver and the fun of it all. You can drift any car, even FWD cars can drift quite well. Maybe something is wrong with their technique?

[Big Al]

this is my bro in his 1302 (green) If pic doesnt work check this link. the green 1302 is a drifter boyz!! http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/foru...d=28873&page=3

[Sandeep]

Pete,

Your Super is a BEAST You've got power in that thing and plenty of it .. hope to have an engine with power like yours someday

Sandeep

[Tim]

Both too low and too high tyre pressure would result in less grip. Too low the pressure, only the two edges of the tyre are touching the road. Too high the pressure, only the middle part of the tyre has contact.

I think the front/rear tire pressure is also related to the weight distribution of the car.

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by Sandeep

Pete,

Your Super is a BEAST You've got power in that thing and plenty of it .. hope to have an engine with power like yours someday

Sandeep

Thats my bros super and its only got a 1916 with about 80-90 hp at the wheels, The 2.7 T4 is being built now then there will be a hell of a lot more smoke!!! DRIFTING goes off!! its so awsome driftin 3rd gear on the race track!!

Alex

[Supa Ninja]

Stock suspensioned (just lowered) 1302 with a hot 1641 was not a problem wiping the tail back and forth in second gear on dry road. I used to do that to see if I can get the passenger to white knuckle the arm rest.