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  #1  
Old December 27th 2004, 15:24
Eurolook71 Eurolook71 is offline
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Lightbulb CF floor pans?

Carbon fibre floor pans sound like a really good idea to me. Not only will they shave off isane amounts of weight, but rust will never ever be a problem. They could be easily installed with some good sized rivets. I've seen fibreglass pans, but only from mark V, and I've heard bad things about quality issues with this place. So, Joe if you read this maybe take it into consideration. I'm sure they won't be cheap, but I feel they would be well beyond worth it.
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Old March 13th 2005, 23:49
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CF floor pans would be sweet. I would consider using 3M structural tape to bond the CF to the car. One precaution worth noting is that SCCA dosent allow cars that dont have aluminum or steel floors. Maybe they dont even allow aluminum and just steel and stainless steel? Anyway you might check into kevlar too. I hear it has greater impact ressistance then CF. The only problem I see with using CF is flexing in the chassis might cause it to bend and weaken. Making a chassis out of steel and CF involves 2 materials with different characteristics. What steel can deal with just fine might be a weakness for CF. Not saying it cant be done but their are lots of variables to consider
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Old March 14th 2005, 07:46
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Carbon fiber floor pans would be suicidal in an accident -- they would explode into dust and minute particles. A carbon fiber and kevlar would be somewhat safer.

If you have ever seen a race crash and jagged body parts are hanging on by threads, that's the kevlar portion. The cloud of dust at impact is the carbon fiber.

I'm certainly not a spokesperson for Carbon Joe, but I do remember him saying he would not do c/f bumpers due to liability issues. If that's still the case, he would be running a greater risk with floor pans.

Additionally, while one would save significant weight, it would be low weight. The car would actually be more top-heavy -- unless one was also planning to make a complete c/f shell.
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Old March 15th 2005, 13:22
coffinator coffinator is offline
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I agree with Oasis. Carbon fiber shatters upon impact. Mller stated that the cf pans would flex. As long as each layer of cf is set in the previous one at 45 degree angle and so on, it will be very ridged. If you were to replace every 3rd cf layer with kevlar it would make it extreamly strong and ridged. As for using rivets for mounting, I wouldn't. It creates a place for cracks to form. I would make a plate out of some 0.125 5051-T6 aluminium that ran around the perimiter of the floor pan and use AN17-8 bolts to hold it together.
If i were Carbon Joe I wouldn't make cf floor pans for the reasons stated by oasis.

mike,
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Old March 15th 2005, 13:29
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all excellent points oasis
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Old March 15th 2005, 20:43
hybrid_john hybrid_john is offline
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yes very good points Oasis.
I wouldnt trust a c/f floor pan. But if you want one you could probably find some one to make you one...I would think about using some honey-combed aluminum or steel inbetween a few sheets of c/f and kevlar...might add strength to it and be safer in crashes! I dont know where to get some metal like that though!
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Old March 17th 2005, 02:30
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3M structural tape would be a good way to mount the CF. For what its worth these cars are already very light (why we like em right) so it would be much more productive to spend time and money on other areas where these cars are less capable (hp, suspension, electronics). But for the sake of bench engineering I would probably make a carbon/kevlar/aluminum structure. Sandwich the aluminum to give the floor more toughness while the cf and kelvar take care of the rigidity and looks.
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Old March 18th 2005, 16:00
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Suicide is right...

Have you ever smelled carbon fiber burning?
My guess is that you haven't...'cause you'd be dead.
The fumes will kill ya just about immediately.
Also, like fiberglass...tiny shards of C/F don't exactly just "pop" out of you...they'd likely burst into a million tiny particles that would embed themselves in your skin and not come out.
I love C/F it looks great and is strong and light, but I wouldn't use it for much more than accents on small parts here and there.
Sure...race cars are full of the stuff, but (and I don't know about you)
I don't use my daily driver everyday and envision myself in a protective suit just to goto the groccery store to pick up some milk...

UGH! I'm ranting again.
Anyway...It is an idea and that's what this forum is for.
I've thought up some weird stuff myself and C/F is a good idea in theory, but not in practice.

Uber
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  #9  
Old May 20th 2005, 18:53
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Carbon fiber/epoxy can be one of the strongest combinations. I would run Carbon floorpans. There are import cars running full caron shells, well, every part cept the uni-body. Hood, bumpers, fenders, trunk....there are some CRXs out there running carbon floorpans...daily drivers. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be a viable option...just have a disclaimer and have them send the document to you notarized showing they understand the risks....
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Old February 10th 2006, 00:51
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Bebobug Bebobug is offline
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C/F floor pans would look good on a show car but, lightening the bottom of the car will only make it top heavy. Might be good on a drag car where they need a high roll center for traction but, it would make the car worthless for turning.
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  #11  
Old February 18th 2006, 09:55
V.waffe 3 V.waffe 3 is offline
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One thing to remember when looking into alternate materials for your floor pans is to consider the fact that floor pans offer a great deal of a cars structural strength. Think of a slam dunk on a fiberglass backboard and you can pretty well see why it is unadvisable to use anything but metal for your floor pan. Aluminum is a possibilty, but you must consider that it is still going take less good ole steel does. As for attachment bonding would be the favorable way to go about attaching softer material to a harder one. If you use a fastener that is harder than the fastened then the pan will begin to tear from the friction between it and the bolt. Another thing to consider about the Japanese import seen is that a lot of cars featured a not really being used for the purpose that we are looking to use our cars for, that is, real performance driving. If you cut holes in a unibody car's floor it's like an opened can of beer. While closed and one whole unit the can is very tough and resistant to being crushed. Pop the top ( your floor board hole) and the can crushes or flexes without much force.

I think that if you are looking to shed weight for performance sake, look into carbon or fiber rear fenders and decklid,lexan rear windows and maybe light weight running boards. I hypothesise that this would aid in evening out the weight bias to a noticable amount. A final word of caution when looking for inspiration is to be careful when looking at what is being done in Import mags. A lot of those cars would perform as well as my brother's '86 Montie Carlo lowrider. Let us never forget the great technical tome that many of these new generation Japanese enthusiast reference ( The Fast and the Furious part 1&2). They don't seem to realize that form should follow function and not the other way around. Good luck on your search, Ryan
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