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Old April 22nd 2014, 08:49
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Bogara_ZO Bogara_ZO is offline
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Show me your breather box

Hi,
Please put your 2 cents in...

1, Do I want to connect my carbs to the breather box or not?

Some say the vacuum coming from the carbs is very important in ventilation, some claims that oil vapor foul the plugs and air cleaners always have oil.

2, I guess mine is just an empty box at the moment (I put a drain plug on the bottom since the photo was taken). Should I put baffles/ sponge/ copper mesh in it? Does it importat to separate the upper/lower section for oil/vapor? What about little air cleaners, are they useless?

mine:


It has only 4 fittings. Is AN8 big enough for the crank? If I decide to plug in the carbs they will use the upper two fittings, so I might connect the right ch's tube and crank's tube with a "T" before connecting the box. Is it ok to do that or better to put an other separated fitting to the box?

Engine is a 2056ccm, car is not a daily driver so not so concerned with emissions (sorry) but I am with the carbs.
Any ideas are well come as well as pictures of your setup!
Thnx
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Last edited by Bogara_ZO; April 22nd 2014 at 08:55.
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Old April 22nd 2014, 09:00
effvee effvee is offline
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Good morning, I feel that you always need something to catch the oil vapors such as a screens on each if the tears. The blow-by must be free flowing, however the screens will catch the oil vapors. The should be a return of oil collected from the vapors back to the engine.
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Old April 22nd 2014, 13:35
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T5WOB T5WOB is offline
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I went for this one .http://www.limebug.net/product/view/...-breather-tube
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Old April 22nd 2014, 21:33
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wrenchnride247 wrenchnride247 is offline
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Nice breather box Bogara. If you vent to air you will have positive pressure in your case, and a mess around the filters venting to air, and rear main seal leaking sooner. Connecting to carbs will give negative (better). Good breather boxes have some internal baffling to help trap the oil mist so it can return to bottom of box and return to case. If you don't plan to turn your engine past 5K all the time, you will not have too much case pressure to worry about.
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Old April 24th 2014, 04:23
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Bogara_ZO Bogara_ZO is offline
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Thanks. I'll open the box to put baffles and copper mesh inside. I see the advantages of plumbing the carbs, but I'm more concerned about the cleaners/intake. Some of the "famous" hi-po cars lack this, even if they are track only cars. As far as I know in Germany it's mandatory on street cars, so they do it for emission and not for technical aspects
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Old April 24th 2014, 22:05
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wrenchnride247 wrenchnride247 is offline
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You can keep the oil out of the carbs if you can get some kind of filter material to put in top half of box. Some people use "brillo pads" for cleaning your dinner ware .
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Old May 1st 2014, 15:37
Kafer_Mike Kafer_Mike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenchnride247 View Post
You can keep the oil out of the carbs if you can get some kind of filter material to put in top half of box. Some people use "brillo pads" for cleaning your dinner ware .
To clarify, you want to use stainless steel cleaning pads; not the traditional "Brillo" pads which are steel. They will not rust -- or make you breather box blow bubbles.

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Old May 1st 2014, 20:47
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wrenchnride247 wrenchnride247 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafer_Mike View Post
To clarify, you want to use stainless steel cleaning pads; not the traditional "Brillo" pads which are steel. They will not rust -- or make you breather box blow bubbles.

Yes, that's what I meant. I don't do dishes anymore, so don't keep up with it, and that was the name I could remember
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  #9  
Old May 4th 2014, 03:58
BeetleBug BeetleBug is offline
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This is my opinion, both boxes above do not deserve to be called breather boxes. They are way to restrictive and far less effiecent compared to a original 1600 VW T1 box. Look at the total in-out area and compare it to the original one. A original box has a 19mm inlet (through the original alternator tower) and a 14 and a 12mm outlet where one has suction from the carb. This ecuals 5 AN8 fittings. I also do not understand why someone choose to breath from their valve covers but that is a other topic.

Cheers,

-BB-

Last edited by BeetleBug; May 4th 2014 at 11:12.
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Old May 6th 2014, 05:25
effvee effvee is offline
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Good morning, if you stay stock, your stock parts work fine. But if you go up in bore, stroke, and compression you are going to start seeing leaks; probably first around the crank. Not sure if you are talking type one, if you are, normally the type one does not have a crank seal.

For me getting the blow-by addressed from different locations aid in total size. That blow-by gasses can be hot, without the aluminum steel wool,, the hot oil vapors can get out causing a mess at wherever the blow-by container is located.

Why the valve covers, its just another place that can be tapped without drilling into your case.

My car, a 2332 type one, I had not added valve cover vents, just the stock location.
My car did leak from the crank, due to new cylinders, not yet mated rings, higher compression. If you choose venting to the carb (carbs), which one? Or are you going to "t" the two? Not venting will cause a mess.

If I can use -8 in several locations all the better.
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Old May 6th 2014, 11:41
BeetleBug BeetleBug is offline
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I do not agree.

The stock T1 breather box is superior to both boxes mentioned in this thread. Basic math will tell you why. It does not matter what size your engine is. The stock box is, on the other hand, not race legal.

Opening the valve covers will only allow the oil a new way of escaping and nothing else. The pressure is not created there and that is why you should not vent there. The oil will always follow the easist route and if the oil is not allowed back to the case where it belongs via the usual 4 escape routes (your pushrod tubes) it will escape via your breather tube. Not good.

I stopped venting the valve covers some years ago and I have not experienced any issues at all. But then again I do make sure I vent where it is needed and where the pressure is created. Take a close look at this Pauter engine case and note where it breaths:



-BB-

Quote:
Originally Posted by effvee View Post
Good morning, if you stay stock, your stock parts work fine. But if you go up in bore, stroke, and compression you are going to start seeing leaks; probably first around the crank. Not sure if you are talking type one, if you are, normally the type one does not have a crank seal.

For me getting the blow-by addressed from different locations aid in total size. That blow-by gasses can be hot, without the aluminum steel wool,, the hot oil vapors can get out causing a mess at wherever the blow-by container is located.

Why the valve covers, its just another place that can be tapped without drilling into your case.

My car, a 2332 type one, I had not added valve cover vents, just the stock location.
My car did leak from the crank, due to new cylinders, not yet mated rings, higher compression. If you choose venting to the carb (carbs), which one? Or are you going to "t" the two? Not venting will cause a mess.

If I can use -8 in several locations all the better.
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Old May 6th 2014, 18:53
effvee effvee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeetleBug View Post
I do not agree.

The stock T1 breather box is superior to both boxes mentioned in this thread. Basic math will tell you why. It does not matter what size your engine is. The stock box is, on the other hand, not race legal.

Opening the valve covers will only allow the oil a new way of escaping and nothing else. The pressure is not created there and that is why you should not vent there. The oil will always follow the easist route and if the oil is not allowed back to the case where it belongs via the usual 4 escape routes (your pushrod tubes) it will escape via your breather tube. Not good.

I stopped venting the valve covers some years ago and I have not experienced any issues at all. But then again I do make sure I vent where it is needed and where the pressure is created. Take a close look at this Pauter engine case and note where it breaths:



-BB-
Beetlebug, you have two post. Is this Pauter engine yours?
This engine is not a daily driver, what's your application? I think I'll stop here until I find this out.
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Old May 16th 2014, 23:41
effvee effvee is offline
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Hay where did you go? I deleted one response, I have waited for further info. I don't think it's fair to refer to a breather box, that's really intended for mild high performance; and show a fire breathing beasty. One thing I can see is the engine is aluminumn, so ease of repair/mods are possible. You don't think valve cover vents are of much good huh? I note that, your engine has basically two dash 12 vents.

No mention of the compression ratio,or boost settings? Let say for the sake of arm chair blow-by philosophy 101. I believe by using 2 dash 8 vents coming from each side of the valve covers. And the normal vent at the alt stand, and just maybe fugging a little and say there is also electronic crank fire ignition; so you take advantage of a forth hole, a dash 16.
collectively I believe that it will be more efficient than your dual blow-by tubes. By not stating all the facts, it won't be very helpful im trying to get a good answer
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Old May 20th 2014, 10:13
BeetleBug BeetleBug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effvee View Post
Hay where did you go? I deleted one response, I have waited for further info. I don't think it's fair to refer to a breather box, that's really intended for mild high performance; and show a fire breathing beasty. One thing I can see is the engine is aluminumn, so ease of repair/mods are possible. You don't think valve cover vents are of much good huh? I note that, your engine has basically two dash 12 vents.

No mention of the compression ratio,or boost settings? Let say for the sake of arm chair blow-by philosophy 101. I believe by using 2 dash 8 vents coming from each side of the valve covers. And the normal vent at the alt stand, and just maybe fugging a little and say there is also electronic crank fire ignition; so you take advantage of a forth hole, a dash 16.
collectively I believe that it will be more efficient than your dual blow-by tubes. By not stating all the facts, it won't be very helpful im trying to get a good answer
Sorry, I`m not visiting this forum so often. Thank you for deleting one post if I double posted.

I posted the picture of the 750hp Pauter engine just to show you where you should breath. The pressure is created inside your crank case and if you let it breath there that is all you need. Let us agree upon one thing: the pressure is the same all over the engine. That goes for the crank case and the heads. If you do not have enough breathing the oil will always escape no matter what. Right? So what happens if you open up your valve covers? The only thing you do is to open up a highway for your oil to escape. The pressure is still the same. The original breather box is far superior to the other ones due to the fact that it has far more breathing capability.

Here is a new picture for you of my 1641 turbo engine. As an experiment I mounted a 40mm hose to see if it puked anything at high boost. Not a single drop! Close to 400 whp at high boost and I`m only breathing from the original fuel pump and the alternator tower itself.



Best rgs
BB
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Old May 20th 2014, 18:49
effvee effvee is offline
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Hay, one of the reasons that I favor adding the valve cover fittings, AN-8 or larger, is because there are four push rod tubes per side of engine. I'm sure you are aware of the extra diameter in each push rod tube. These are direct portals, 8 in total for blow-by to exit.

I see your tubing at the original blow-by/oil filler housing location is larger than stock. You would have actually had to remove some of the original Volkswagen blow/by pieces in order for your application to be installed. This cannot be understood as if it were stock.

I think that we are all on the same page, (same understanding) whatever way that you address this. Understanding this problem and dealing with the blow-by, must be addressed if not oil leaks will occur.take care.

Last edited by effvee; May 20th 2014 at 22:35.
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