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  #1  
Old October 27th 2005, 23:11
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Mikey Mikey is offline
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Question Suby-conversion advice?

I'm thinking about a Subaru conversion for my Ghia. I think the Power-Cost ratio is worth having a radiator.

What would be some general advice for the converstion? I've started some research already, forums and websites about other conversions. I'm thinking about either a EJ20T or a EJ20TT.

I'm also going with a 914/01 Tranny. Would that be a good combination with the suby?

Thanks... I'll ask more questions as I come up with them.
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  #2  
Old October 28th 2005, 01:34
libila libila is offline
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My best advice is do all of the research before you start buying parts. Make sure you know what you're getting yourself in to.

I thought about doing a Subaru swap for a while too. You are in luck though, there are a few guys here that have done/are doing suby swaps.
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  #3  
Old October 28th 2005, 19:09
scoobytuner scoobytuner is offline
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i am also working on an ej swap as we speak. i think that it would be a cool idea to use this thread for ideas, experiences and things we learn.. im all about learning.

what type of info are you looking for? subynotch has a really cool car, and an even cooler site that he logged everything that had to do with his swap. kinda cool if you ask me. also, vwrx, and some others have all also done the swap.
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  #4  
Old October 28th 2005, 21:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobytuner
i am also working on an ej swap as we speak. i think that it would be a cool idea to use this thread for ideas, experiences and things we learn.. im all about learning.
That's what I'm all about, I made the title of this thread with the intention of making a thread for a good referance of experiance, and answers to basic questions.

What size pipe do I need to run front to back?
What size radiator do I need for the size engine? (minimum)
What size fuel pump would I need? How much psi would the engine need?
Also, I have no clue where to start when it comes to ignition. What parts to buy, where to get them? That's the BIGGEST challenge for me so far. I've seen some go stock, others not... Which is the best/easiest?
And, How would a 914/01 tranny work with this engine? Any ideas? Can it hold the power?
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  #5  
Old October 28th 2005, 23:10
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Sandeep Sandeep is offline
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I'll chime in here because I'm doing the research now as well. I was going to do a T4 turbo but a ride in a friends 914-V8 conversion changed my mind

My main concern right now is getting the engine to fit without cutting up any bodywork in the rear too keep it looking stock.

I'm using a 914 gearbox which is already installed and the rear of the bellhousing is at the stock 4 speed location. I can't move it any further forward without hacking into the torsion tubes ... and then there is the low sump ... don't want to raise the rear of the bug up. I've heard the 914 gearbox can take about 300 hp/300 tq without killing itself.

The pipes / rad / wiring are minor to me ... just have to make it fit first !

Keep the questions coming ! because I'm learning too !

Sandeep
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  #6  
Old October 29th 2005, 00:51
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I'm also doing an EJ swap, the stock ej20t (tt) longblock/internals will handle 405 hp on average which equals 19 lbs of boost. As long as you can push enough fuel to the motor, it's healthy between 350-400 hp. As long as your tranny will handle the torque of the motor, this is one wicked setup. A 915 will handle about 300 lb. ft of torque.
A stock ej20t header fits, an ej20tt's stock dual exhaust hits the axles, but since the stock exhaust isn't used, you get better heads, better spool up time, because of the sequential turbos, and better torque.

Stock EJ20T - 227 hp, power from 3000 rpm.

Stock EJ20TT - 276 hp, power from 1700 rpm.

I got the ej20tt and i'm gonna convert it to a single turbo, with a holset hx-35 from a 2001 automatic dodge cummins turbo diesel. It spools up at 4000 with the 2.0 ltr, and the turbo handles 40 lbs no problem. My good friend runs this setup on his wrx and it pulls harder than most any car out there. The car has built every thing down to the cryo treated crank, sleeved block, forged pistons and ported heads and everything else you can think of. He puts 30+ lbs of boost on 110 for fun and the car is rediculously fast. 0-60 mph in 3.3 seconds...it doesn't have any problems getting through the 1320.

I'll build my motor to handle 600 ponies after the car is built up, so for now, 400 will do...
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  #7  
Old October 29th 2005, 11:32
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Thumbs up

I'm building an EJ25 into a '70 bug.
Looks like I'm the only one going non-turbo

I have a WRX, so I know what a turbo does, personally it scares the sh!t out of me to put a 227 HP motor in a 30 year old car.
I figured I'll start with an EJ25, and boost it later if the hunger for more power comes along

In any case, check out my website (in my sig) for details on the build up.

I use the stock ECU, mostly because it is a super low budget hackjob that I am doing, guys like VWRX, Jakriz etc are an a completely different league than me

A good rule of thumb is to make a budget, and then double it. There is sooo much little stuff that you don't think about, and it will add up the $$$ quickly.
I'm not trying to scare you, I actually encourage you, I've had mine running for a little bit and it was fantastic, the torque was addictive !

Rob.
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  #8  
Old October 29th 2005, 15:22
scoobytuner scoobytuner is offline
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its nice to see so many people chiming in on their own setups, it looks like we should be able to share alot of good information. i did have a few little corrections to make before any bad information gets spread around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazylongboarder
I'm also doing an EJ swap, the stock ej20t (tt) longblock/internals will handle 405 hp on average which equals 19 lbs of boost. As long as you can push enough fuel to the motor, it's healthy between 350-400 hp. As long as your tranny will handle the torque of the motor, this is one wicked setup. A 915 will handle about 300 lb. ft of torque.
A stock ej20t header fits, an ej20tt's stock dual exhaust hits the axles, but since the stock exhaust isn't used, you get better heads, better spool up time, because of the sequential turbos, and better torque.
there is really no such thing as a ej20t. if you look on the block of a car, there is nothing saying ej20t, it will say ej205 ej207 ej257 ej20g ej255 ej25 ect ect. ej20t is like using a very broad term to describe the engine. infact in my recollection there is no such thing as an ej20 non turbo. so with that being said, I just want to clarify a few little things. lazylongboarder, i dont mean to pick on your post, because you have alot of good info, but if i might, i would love to clean up some of what you said that is somewhat untrue. youve been misinformed. i want to get this stuff cleared up in the spirit of spreading truths rather than untruths. its obviously nothing personal either because you are a way cool guy with lots of knowledge amd i know that first hand.

there is nothing published saying the stock ej20 motors will handle 405 hp. infact, i know of a bonestock ej20 motor making 500 whp which is probly more like 600 at the flywheel. thats an ej207. the ej205 is the stock wrx motor, (227hp) and usually can make 400 hp properly tuned. ive seen wrx motors crap out at very low power levels like 350 and up. just depends on the tune, and a good ole thing called luck. further more, there is NOT a direct relation between hp and boost. i have made probly 330-340 hp on one of my cars at 20 psi of boost, and another one of my cars, since it was using a MUCH bigger turbo and a better motor, was probably making about 480-500 hp. boost does not equal hp ever. ever. EVER. there are too many variables to say something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazylongboarder
Stock EJ20T - 227 hp, power from 3000 rpm.

Stock EJ20TT - 276 hp, power from 1700 rpm.
unfortunately there are 2 things that are VERY untrue about this as well.

the stock WRX does not make 227hp at 3000 rpms, it makes it at 6000rpms.

do you realize that by saying it makes 227hp at 3000 rpms, you are saying that it also makes 397ft lbs of torque at said RPMs? obviously that is no where near the truth. the stock WRX makes 215 ft lbs of torque at 4000 rpms.

also, by saying that the ej20tt makes 276hp at 1700 rpms is also saying that it makes 852 ft lbs of torque at 1700rpms. remember torque and hp are tied in with one another very closely. infact there is a .1 correlation between hp and torque at the same engine speed.

remember the formula torque=hp*5252/rpms and conversly hp=torque*rpms/5252

i do understand what you are saying that the tt motor spools faster, because its got 2 seq turbos, but the power figures you stated are way off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lazylongboarder
I got the ej20tt and i'm gonna convert it to a single turbo, with a holset hx-35 from a 2001 automatic dodge cummins turbo diesel. It spools up at 4000 with the 2.0 ltr, and the turbo handles 40 lbs no problem. My good friend runs this setup on his wrx and it pulls harder than most any car out there. The car has built every thing down to the cryo treated crank, sleeved block, forged pistons and ported heads and everything else you can think of. He puts 30+ lbs of boost on 110 for fun and the car is rediculously fast. 0-60 mph in 3.3 seconds...it doesn't have any problems getting through the 1320.
the holset turbo you are speaking of, is actually a HY35 which came on the automatic dodge trucks in 01, the HX35 came on the manual transmission trucks. the hx35 would NEVER spool up at 4k on a 2.0 liter WRX motor. I promise. The HY has a better sized turbine housing, so that one will still spool up better, but still would just about not spool in first gear on a 2.0 liter wrx motor. again I promise. the reason I know, is because I am the guy of whom you are speaking, with the built motor wrx cummins turbo car. do you not check your PMs? i sent you one letting you know who I am like last week. Anyways, about my car, i dont want any miunderstandings or rumors spread about my car either, because someone will call me on it one day, and ill be embarrassed.

my car has an HY35 turbo yes, off of an 01 dodge cummins deisel. my motor is built to the hills yes, and it is an ej25 block not a 20 block. it displaces 2.4 liters, and has raised compression, ported heads, ect ect. there is alot happening inside that motor that helps spool my HY35 turbo. it spools at a very reasonable engine speed, about 4k. but again, its not a 2.0 liter car. the hy35 would not go well on a 2.0 liter stock WRX motor without MUCH lag.

i do not run 30 psi, the motor and turbo could do it and alot more, but i havent. i have never tuned for more than 20 psi ever on this turbo, and 22 psi on my previous garrett T62-1. it is incredibly fast, and really does do 0-60 in the mid 3 second range, but ive never run 110 gas through it, or tuned for 30#s.

lazy, you have some good info, and some bad info, please dont take any corrections as offensive, as they are only intended to help the group.

anywyas, here are a few of the latest pics of the motor in my wrx. and im off to go change the plugs right now. the rain stopped.




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  #9  
Old October 29th 2005, 16:21
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We have the EJ20 non turbo in the UK, it is in the 2l 'sport' models...

Rich
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  #10  
Old October 29th 2005, 17:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazylongboarder
Stock EJ20T - 227 hp, power from 3000 rpm.

Stock EJ20TT - 276 hp, power from 1700 rpm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobytuner
unfortunately there are 2 things that are VERY untrue about this as well.

the stock WRX does not make 227hp at 3000 rpms, it makes it at 6000rpms.

do you realize that by saying it makes 227hp at 3000 rpms, you are saying that it also makes 397ft lbs of torque at said RPMs? obviously that is no where near the truth. the stock WRX makes 215 ft lbs of torque at 4000 rpms.

also, by saying that the ej20tt makes 276hp at 1700 rpms is also saying that it makes 852 ft lbs of torque at 1700rpms. remember torque and hp are tied in with one another very closely. infact there is a .1 correlation between hp and torque at the same engine speed.

remember the formula torque=hp*5252/rpms and conversly hp=torque*rpms/5252

i do understand what you are saying that the tt motor spools faster, because its got 2 seq turbos, but the power figures you stated are way off.
I thought he was meaning that the power STarts at 1700 rpm. NOt the max power is at 1700rpm. Or at least logically it sounds that way to me. I understand that the wording could lead you to believe that he means 276hp AT 1700rpm. But that's not how it sounds to me. Just my 2cents.
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Last edited by Mikey; October 29th 2005 at 17:12.
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  #11  
Old October 29th 2005, 18:48
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tom'72 tom'72 is offline
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I've completed my engine swap and have driven it for about 300km now and have never regretted going through the whole proces

here's some pics http://www.cardomain.com/ride/844382/1

currently I'm running the EJ20TT without boost (don't know how exactly to attach the vacuum hoses yet) on a stock type 1 trans and even now it feels very fast. I've done a wheelie once with my previous copper clutch (wasn't very driveable on the streets) but have never really floored it because of fear for transmission failiure.
I don't have any real numbers on it for now but my guess is it does 0-100km/h in about 5.5 seconds and I've been over 200 km/h with it but that's just scary
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Old October 30th 2005, 09:29
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DORIGTT DORIGTT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
I have a WRX, so I know what a turbo does, personally it scares the sh!t out of me to put a 227 HP motor in a 30 year old car.

Rob.
Sounds like a man who's seen his maker on occasion in that WRX!
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Old October 30th 2005, 11:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DORIGTT
Sounds like a man who's seen his maker on occasion in that WRX!
hehehe, the thing is, you can never have enough power.....when you are on the highway
Personally I like go around corners quickly, and I've noticed that (for now) 227HP is more than enough to get me into trouble

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Old October 30th 2005, 21:59
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wow, thats an awesome engine scoobytuner. I think i remember reading about it on nasioc.com. INTENSE.

anyways, ill post some info that has helped me do my swap.

you can go to my site that shows my conversion that has been working great for me since i got it running, like a month or so ago at
http://www.studiotuning.net/subynotch

NASIOC has helped me a lil get acquainted with the motor. They have a tuning forum and some really knowledgeable users.
http://www.nasioc.com

theres the volks-swap forums, they are dead most of the time though
http://frost.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions

there the aussie vee dubbers "non-vw engines" forum that has alot of good info with quick responces most of the time.
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com

Outback motors has pretty good prices on the ej series parts and helpful conversion parts.
http://www.outbackmotors.com

Megasquirt is the cheapest EFI i know and has a ton of support
Mega Squirt Manual
Megasquirt forums
http://www.msefi.com

Shoptalkforums has a conversion forum but its dead most of the time also.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com

-Ryan
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  #15  
Old October 31st 2005, 10:44
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Sandeep Sandeep is offline
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Hey All,

I have a line on an engine from a 2002 WRX with 144,000 km (89,000 m).

It has an upgaded turbo (deadbolt tdo4 monstor port and polish and ceramic coated) and stock ecu with yoshio stage 2 tune.

Timing belts have been changed ...

I'm pretty sure with an upgraded turbo, this engine has seen some track time.

Is there anything I should be looking out for ... and what kind of price would something like this go for ?

Thanks !

Sandeep
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