GermanLook Forums  

Go Back   GermanLook Forums > Technical Section > Engines

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 28th 2006, 03:51
Hebster52's Avatar
Hebster52 Hebster52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 88
Turbo, carbs or EFI on a T-1/3?

I'm trying to decide what route to go with the engine for my Ghia..

The best would be if I could use the Type-4 to start from, but the stupid Finnish regulations says NO!!

According to the regulations the engine size is only allowed to increase by 25% from the largest engine withing the cartypes range. This means that the largest engine size will be slightly under 2000cc because the largest engine in a Ghia was 1600cc... Also the stock horsepower for the replacement engine is allowed to increase by 20%... A 1600cc ->50hp gives a maximum horsepower of 60hp... The smallest T4 is 1700cc but I think their stock hp is about 65? so they are out of the question here. This leads me to a T-1/3 engine at 1915cc- 2007cc..

I'm now having hard to decide what to chose. Turbo with EFI, dualcarbs, or plain EFI... Suggestions and ideas are welcome.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 28th 2006, 10:13
Massive Type IV's Avatar
Massive Type IV Massive Type IV is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 442
Umm, a 25% gain will allow you to run 396cc more than the original 1584cc displacement of the 1600cc TI engine-


So with this you CAN run a stock displacement TIV 2.0 engine as the STOCK displacement is 1971cc and you can effectively, within the law run up to 1980cc (1584cc+396cc)!

So there is no question as to what the wise route would be!

To me Turbo requires EFI, without it you are running on "borrowed time". EFI alone doesn't make big HP gains, yet it does increase torque by a solid 10+% in my direct testing with carbs. EFI offers extreme drivability and down low punch compared to any carbureted engine.
__________________
Jake Raby
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 28th 2006, 12:18
choconito choconito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10
Sorry my english.

Here, in Mexico, you find a 1600 cc EFI engine in any vw agency, the mexican version have one ECU but this is not reprogram.. if you nedd more HP you have many options in your country like, one reprogram Ecu and the turbo upgrade I think is possible but in Mexico is more difficult.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 28th 2006, 14:44
Hebster52's Avatar
Hebster52 Hebster52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Massive Type IV
Umm, a 25% gain will allow you to run 396cc more than the original 1584cc displacement of the 1600cc TI engine-


So with this you CAN run a stock displacement TIV 2.0 engine as the STOCK displacement is 1971cc and you can effectively, within the law run up to 1980cc (1584cc+396cc)!

So there is no question as to what the wise route would be!

To me Turbo requires EFI, without it you are running on "borrowed time". EFI alone doesn't make big HP gains, yet it does increase torque by a solid 10+% in my direct testing with carbs. EFI offers extreme drivability and down low punch compared to any carbureted engine.
Yes, I'm aware about the fact that the displacement is within the regulations but not the stock power output on the Type IV.. That must be under 60hp (stock 50hp + 20%) That is the problem..

But by using a Type 1 or 3 engine with the same displacement it then is open for any tune up except the turbocharging which requires a Dynotest which shows that the maximum output on the Turbocharged engine is 60hp... BTW. There are several "60hp" beetles in Finland I even know of one that is 60(0)hp and "streetlegal"...

Yes, choconito. I have a few options regarding the programmable fuelinjections too.

For some reason I would feel that the VVT as we say here is more cool (VVT translated is like DRT=Dare to Refuse Turbo...) It is pretty easy to make a powerful Turbocharged engine, but if you want a powerful engine without you need more skill and more money...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 28th 2006, 17:42
jonas_linder jonas_linder is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mellerud,Sweden
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebster52
Yes, I'm aware about the fact that the displacement is within the regulations but not the stock power output on the Type IV.. That must be under 60hp (stock 50hp + 20%) That is the problem..

But by using a Type 1 or 3 engine with the same displacement it then is open for any tune up except the turbocharging which requires a Dynotest which shows that the maximum output on the Turbocharged engine is 60hp... BTW. There are several "60hp" beetles in Finland I even know of one that is 60(0)hp and "streetlegal"...

Yes, choconito. I have a few options regarding the programmable fuelinjections too.

For some reason I would feel that the VVT as we say here is more cool (VVT translated is like DRT=Dare to Refuse Turbo...) It is pretty easy to make a powerful Turbocharged engine, but if you want a powerful engine without you need more skill and more money...
You could always change the engine code with a hammer They will never be able to tell the difference "pannkaka som pannkaka"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 28th 2006, 17:55
Hebster52's Avatar
Hebster52 Hebster52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 88
Hi Jonas! So your arround here too!

Yes, that would be one way to do it. Some have done it too and never been caught...

My original plan was to install a 2,4 flatsix in the G-Razor, but will settle with flat4 for now. It might acctually be possible to even make the T4 legal, even the flat6... (well sort of..) By marking the 2,4 to be a 2,0...

Remember this is classified information so it must not leave this forum! Otherwise I have to hunt down the leak and eliminate it...

Yes, we Finns are some secret people, ust like my collegue Tommi.. :agree: This is partly due to the regulations and also because the Finnish VW scene is pretty densed (everybody knows everybody..) so it is kind of hard to keep any secrets.... :doh:
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 1st 2006, 13:33
Pepper Pepper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2
I am thinking of coming to Finland and was looking to bring a car there. I know there is a big hot rod scene there and I was wondering how they get around these tight regulations?
By the way my brother has a '65 t34 ghia that we are working on at the moment. Last weekend we lowered it 1 spline, put urethane bushes thoughout and adjustable shocks. He is looking to go down the mid 60's Porsche 2.4 911 motor/gearbox/brakes. Sort of what VW would have done with the Ghia in the 60's if they had teamed up with Porsche. Sort of like what Audi did with the RS2. He is also getting a guy to make the panels out of aluminium as he has an old guy down the road who was a fabricator.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 1st 2006, 14:24
Hebster52's Avatar
Hebster52 Hebster52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
I am thinking of coming to Finland and was looking to bring a car there. I know there is a big hot rod scene there and I was wondering how they get around these tight regulations? .
What type of Hotrod do you have in mind? When you move and bring a car that is allready registered somewhere else it shouldn't be to much problem. Offcourse if it is a Fenderless you probably will have to fabricate some type of fenders. For example something like the bike fenders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
By the way my brother has a '65 t34 ghia that we are working on at the moment. Last weekend we lowered it 1 spline, put urethane bushes thoughout and adjustable shocks. He is looking to go down the mid 60's Porsche 2.4 911 motor/gearbox/brakes. Sort of what VW would have done with the Ghia in the 60's if they had teamed up with Porsche. Sort of like what Audi did with the RS2. He is also getting a guy to make the panels out of aluminium as he has an old guy down the road who was a fabricator.
The Porsche drivetrain was originally my plans too but I will bring my Ghia back to the registry more "original" for the starters and then try to convince the authorities here that my Ghia need the 2,4 911 engine too...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© www.GermanLook.net 2002-2017. All Rights Reserved