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  #31  
Old November 24th 2005, 19:25
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I am only going to say this once,for you to build what is know as a reliable t1 engine you will have to buy parts along the line of autocraft ( expensive ) , gene berg ( expensive ), pauter ( expensive ). What jake is saying is that a t4 2ltr engine can be built from 2.0l to 2.4ltr using the stock crank and be very reliable. Elroocky on this forum ran a 2.4ltr t4 motor in races for 8 years now that motor is in a daily driven bug he says not once have they pulled the block. Jake has taken a 1.7ltr t4 motor and turned it into a 3.0 monster.
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  #32  
Old November 24th 2005, 20:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad bug
I am only going to say this once,for you to build what is know as a reliable t1 engine you will have to buy parts along the line of autocraft ( expensive ) , gene berg ( expensive ), pauter ( expensive ). What jake is saying is that a t4 2ltr engine can be built from 2.0l to 2.4ltr using the stock crank and be very reliable. Elroocky on this forum ran a 2.4ltr t4 motor in races for 8 years now that motor is in a daily driven bug he says not once have they pulled the block. Jake has taken a 1.7ltr t4 motor and turned it into a 3.0 monster.
you dont need gene berg parts or pauter parts to have a reliable T1 motor.
Other then the Gene Berg Shifter, Intermediate Mount & IDA stacks, most
Gene Berg Parts are over priced and unnecessary to have a realiable motor.
Nor do you need Pauter parts. You can build a realiable T1 motor with
CB Performance, Scat, Demello and plenty of other well know companies.

One more thing, a T4 motor doesnt have to cost you over $10000 to be
good either. This isnt rocket science. This is motor building. There is a point
where it just isnt worth spending the extra $1000's of dollars just to make it
a little better when you can get a damn good motor for thousands less with
out all the extra upgrades that may or may not make it a little more realiable.
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  #33  
Old November 24th 2005, 23:13
Supa Ninja Supa Ninja is offline
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First off I would like to appoligize to the thread starter, Oasis, because I will be taking my post on a tangent. About a year and half ago there was a kid on here by the name mystical, who had a opportunity to purchase a mullholland look super for cheap(I wonder why ). I guess he was in the tuner scene and wanted to get the most out of the car for autocross or something. He had never owned a older VW before so this was his first project. Needless to say lots and lots of questions, and i think he thought you could take a cheap bug and make it badass very easily. To make a short story long, he didn't live far from me so I showed my old '72 Super that at the time was under construction.
What we're, the GL community,doing can only be described as insane. A GLed VW is a economy car turned into a super car, you can't just bolt some parts on it and be done with it. This is accomplished after many months, I dare say years in my case, and the only way one continues on this hurdle course is to have a incredable love for this car. Who else would spend so much time researching, running down the "right" parts for his vision, the countless long hours of fabricating, and the money that is required for this project of projects. Now a car like Alex's old split, which in my mind is the ultimate GL, would you just spend a few thousand on a cheaply built T1, hell no you don't. You put the biggest baddest muther fukker that will fit in it, and that my friend is going to cost some serious cheddar.
I'm working on a budget, I'm cutting as many corners as I can and still have a quality GL. With all the help of my VW friends I'm still looking at least $7K in the car total, thats the car, lil pussy disc brakes, a stock 2L T4, 901, paint, cage, and tuner rims. Who the hell would buy a '71 Super Beetle in California for $7000? Only somenone who is insane would, if you want to look at it on paper. There is a feeling that get when you drive around in something that should be, but is because you built it. I want that feeling, I will keep at this through hell and high water. I sleep, live, and breathe this stuff.
As far as the cost of powerplants go why don't you ask some of the guys on here who have spent big bucks on a engine ask if they were to do it again would they go that route. Also ask the guys running the EJ's or the ecotec's if they are glad they did it. Me I'll run the 2.0L for a while and put a EJ in my 914 and see how I like it before I start to cut up my 1302. The good thing about GL is you can run whatever engine you want in your car, run whatever brakes, tranny choice it doesn't matter as long as you are getting the most gains. Me personally I see zero advantages in a swing axle, but there are a couple of guys wanting to go there, whatever I won't knockem.

Sorry bout the length,
Nick
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  #34  
Old November 25th 2005, 04:55
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No apologies are necessary.

I just wanted to be sure that staying within $8,000 and the other stated parameters, there was only one choice--albeit with slight variations and multiple choices of builders. That choice is the Type 1.

That is not a knock at Type 4 engines. That is not a knock at Suby engines. Each seemed to go outside my parameters by saying I needed to get "someone" to do this or to do that. Unless or until I find that "someone" it is not really a choice.

There will be plenty of time for me to find that "someone." During that time I will discover if the dollar figure is accurate or not.

I'm only the thread starter; not the thread owner. Feel free to tangent away. I'm still reading, learning, and enjoying.

Everyone has been civil. That's the most important set of parameters to stay within.
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  #35  
Old November 25th 2005, 09:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supa Ninja
Now a car like Alex's old split, which in my mind is the ultimate GL, would you just spend a few thousand on a cheaply built T1, hell no you don't. You put the biggest baddest muther fukker that will fit in it, and that my friend is going to cost some serious cheddar.
I didn't go the T4 route, cause i wanted some serious power. My NA 2332 makes the 200hp, and i've gotten too used to it. So in the Split, a 2332 turbo will be stuffed in it. Plans are EFI, Turbo, Intercooled. Looking for 300-450hp.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Supa Ninja
As far as the cost of powerplants go why don't you ask some of the guys on here who have spent big bucks on a engine ask if they were to do it again would they go that route. Nick
Yes, and i learned to spend it once on quality parts. I'd rather spend a couple bucks more doing a T1/T4, then cutting it up. I don't want to Hack out the back of the car to put a rotary/ecotec/suby in it. In my opinion it needs to stay aircooled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kleinporsche
Why don't you go and buy yourself a good whole Porsche 3.2L for around 17k!? Tabarnak! nowadays there is no modern car company that sells their "little" engines for such a big price.

Then if you wan real power, serious handling, go with a real porsche, or you will end up paying twice the price of a porsche for a car that want's to be but never quite will... Ouf, feel better now that I let some steam out. Sorry guys, I know this doesn't help, it is just opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Do you really think that we can't add up numbers (costs) ourselves and have not realised we could have gotten a nice old 911 for the same money?

For your consellation (sp?): most people don't understand why s/one else puts a lot of money into a bug or any aircooled old vw...

And as to your conception of the 'real' power and 'real' handling of a porsche versus one of 'our' cars: Mwhahahah!! please read up, your in for a big surprise...

Reagrds,
Walter
Problem is, i don't like old, nice, slow 911's. The ones i would fancy cost a little more. So until i can buy a upgraded 930, 993TT, or 996GT2/GT3 I will continue trying to make my bugs go faster, turn and brake harder. It's only costing me 1/2 the cheddar, and I AM doing it.
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  #36  
Old November 25th 2005, 09:08
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Here in Jamaica you have some guy's who went suby conversion and to what i have understand they weren't done properly. I guest those guy's will be looking for new chasis soon. But let me ask only one question isn't the suby engine heavier than the t4 if so those bugs will have cornering issues. I am somewhat going gl look without porsche rims, for now as my car was swing axle. I onced took a ride in my friends 2.0l type 1 engine car and saw what he did in corners and knew i could not do that with a swing axle car so at the end of this month i will be changing the chasis for a irs backend chasis.
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  #37  
Old November 25th 2005, 11:32
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oasis, talk to No_H2O if you want one of jake's kits assembled. i am betting he would be up for it since your schedule would be fairly flexible and he knows the stuff well. you won't find a more honest and reliable person too.
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  #38  
Old November 25th 2005, 15:50
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Zen has an excellent idea...

As far as thre 4 cylinder 911 engine goes:
They start at 22K and if it breakes EVERY part has to be purchased from the man himself..

If you want to create a car thats no longer a true VW- install a radiator..

VuJade- I don't know who pissed in your cornflakes, but your comments are just about to piss me off.... Your discounting of what goes into one of my engines is about as far off base as a foul ball...

Quote:
One more thing, a T4 motor doesnt have to cost you over $10000 to be
good either. This isnt rocket science. This is motor building.
So if it's so damn easy, why didn't you build you own???? Next time we see each other eyeball to eyeball I think we need to have a serious chat.
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  #39  
Old November 25th 2005, 16:14
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Quote:
If you want to create a car thats no longer a true VW- install a radiator..
how can that be? last time i looked on my registration, it said vw in clear print.

Quote:
So if it's so damn easy, why didn't you build you own???? Next time we see each other eyeball to eyeball I think we need to have a serious chat.
the whole point of his post was to say you can still build a good engine withall the fancy stuff that is available today. When building an engine like this, it isnt rocket science. he wasnt saying anything bad about jake rabys engines, he just said u can build a decent engine yourself for alot less. i could tell you right now how to build a 2270 for 2200 bucks, it wouldnt be as fancy and well thought out as your engines, but im sure it would be good.

-Ryan
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Last edited by 73notch; November 25th 2005 at 16:24.
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  #40  
Old November 25th 2005, 16:25
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Real VWs don't have radiators- either from the factory or otherwise..

Like I said before- The aircooled characteristic of the VW is the only thing that separates it from any other economy car of the era... Be it a Ford Pinto, Chevy Chevette, or Toyota Corolla....

Taking that away from it creates a pretty wothless car to a true VW enthusiast, a vehicle that has no historical value.

But of course this is coming from someone that refuses to own a car with a radiator....
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  #41  
Old November 25th 2005, 16:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massive Type IV
VuJade- I don't know who pissed in your cornflakes, but your comments are just about to piss me off.... Your discounting of what goes into one of my engines is about as far off base as a foul ball...
I dont know what the F**K you are talking about Jake!
Do you have a persecution complex or something?
Why would you think that statement was about you?
All I said is that he doesnt have to spend $10,000 to have a reliable
motor. He could build a reliable T4 for $5000. It may not have all
the latest innovations, but it will still be a reliable motor.
*I hope that clears this up for you.


Quote:
So if it's so damn easy, why didn't you build you own???
I never said I was an expert. I just said there are options. I researched
my options and had mine built by someone I thought was reputable and
would do a good job for a fair price.


Quote:
Next time we see each other eyeball to eyeball I think we need to have a serious chat
I think you may want to consider calling me before you let it get to that.

I didn't appreciate you slamming me on STF forums either. That was
total BS and was uncalled for. You weren't even part of that thread,
nor was it about you, but you stuck your nose in it and told me to shup up!
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  #42  
Old November 25th 2005, 17:15
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Quote:
Quote:
Next time we see each other eyeball to eyeball I think we need to have a serious chat


I think you may want to consider calling me before you let it get to that.
Nah, I'd prefer to have a good old fashioned chat... Phone lines just don't give the true feeling of a statement IMHO!

Quote:
I didn't appreciate you slamming me on STF forums either. That was
total BS and was uncalled for. You weren't even part of that thread,
nor was it about you, but you stuck your nose in it and told me to shup up!
Last time I checked I didn't give a damn what you appreciated. If I did I wouldn't have made that post on the STF.

Its not fair to the forum members here for us to hijack this thread- Lets take care of this offline.
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  #43  
Old November 25th 2005, 18:53
Supa Ninja Supa Ninja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massive Type IV
Real VWs don't have radiators- either from the factory or otherwise.

Oh man where do I begin. Back in '99 I remember a local shop owner telling me he didn't consider a car a Volkswagen if it didn't run points, I also remember about that time era as well that Turbos were for "cheaters" mentality. Same thing with NOS. Now lets fast forward to 2005, pointless ignition is like having brand new points all the time, they do need to be continually adjusted, no rubbing blocks snapping off, and they don't weld themselves together. All in all they improve the VW. Go to a VW and see how many VW's are running Turbos, NOS....a lot, thats cause it makes them go faster. As far as I know Paradise Express still has the 4 cylinder world record, and its turbo'd.

Where am I going with this, simple if something makes our cars better then why have a closed mind about it. There is a limit to how much hp can be created in a aircooled engine reliably, and economically. So a smart man would look for alternatives and a wise man would not disregard the alternatives. What are our (aircooled) options for a high horsepower (greater than 200 hp) engine, ohc heads, 3.0L w/nickies, all of that costs big dollars. Whats the point of building these amazing machines if a local punk 16 year old's parents buy him a SRT-4, EVO, or a STI that out of the box will out perform us. So why not fight fire with fire.
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  #44  
Old November 25th 2005, 19:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zen
oasis, talk to No_H2O if you want one of jake's kits assembled.
Cool. I now have two possible choices.
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  #45  
Old November 25th 2005, 20:28
bean_8044 bean_8044 is offline
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Maybe its just me, but you like your cars, and i like mine. Theres things that i like and things i dont like. I think the thing that makes a VW a VW is that its so modular. You can put almost anything in it and its still going to be a volkswagen.
Theres more to the beetle than just an air cooled engine. What about that beetle smell? or the fenders and body lines? How about those damn floor pans and heater channels? In the end, its still going to be my car and im going to do whatever i choose to with it. If i want a volksrod, its going to be a volksrod, or baja, or GL, or restoration
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