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  #16  
Old November 13th 2009, 03:24
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Hi

Sorry to be going off subject here.

My handbrake cables do go correctly around the circular guides on the base of the Beetle handbrake lever, that's a 1st year apprentice error.

On my 1st 944 rear set-up I used the existing 944 swan necks and adapted the Beetle cables to fit, on my 2nd set-up I used the kit from Lanner with the modified swan necks and sleeve on the handbrake cable tube.

Both set-ups worked about as well as one another, they will hold on a hill no problem, but there is no way that they will lock the back wheels at speed, I think that it is a lever ratio problem, I'm just not able exert enough tension on the cable to lock the brakes.

Steve
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  #17  
Old November 13th 2009, 09:58
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Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
Hi

Sorry to be going off subject here.

My handbrake cables do go correctly around the circular guides on the base of the Beetle handbrake lever, that's a 1st year apprentice error.

On my 1st 944 rear set-up I used the existing 944 swan necks and adapted the Beetle cables to fit, on my 2nd set-up I used the kit from Lanner with the modified swan necks and sleeve on the handbrake cable tube.

Both set-ups worked about as well as one another, they will hold on a hill no problem, but there is no way that they will lock the back wheels at speed, I think that it is a lever ratio problem, I'm just not able exert enough tension on the cable to lock the brakes.

Steve
Hi Steve,
I was surprised at the ease that the cables slipped off the quadrant guide even though I had paid particular attention to them. I know now that I have to check, double check and check on completion with these little b*gg*rs.
I too used the 944 swan necks and shortened the beetle cables to suit. I am obverse to paying for something that I can make easily myself.
Having had drum parking brakes with rear discs on several of my previous cars I don't expect to do handbrake turns on little 8"x1 1/2" shoes especially on a tail heavy beetle. However, I do find the parking brake on the disc option even worse especially with sliding calipers where the tendancy is to try and bend the disc initially as the application is one sided. As I intend to autotest our beetle I have added a hydraulic handbrake to create those handbrake turns.
I honestly don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with the VW handbrake. I would not look to increase the leverage as the travel distance between on and off will be uncomfortably large.

Clive
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  #18  
Old November 15th 2009, 04:02
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Hi Clive

I actually managed to use stock length cables in my 1st set-up, I bolted the Beetle handbrake cable to the stock 944 swan neck and altered the length of the 944 handbrake tube that goes into the backing plate to get it correct.

My 944 set-up in my daily 1303 works OK as parking brake, but I always let the car settle and give it another click, I would fit a hydraulic handbrake if I felt the need for it.

I agree the sliding type callipers are a compromise, I've even heard of OEM brackets bending when doing handbrake turns.

I will see how well the 944 lever and cables work in my new 1303.

Steve
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  #19  
Old November 24th 2009, 03:57
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Here in South Africa, you can buy a hub and caliper bracket kit that allows you to run a Golf MK1/Rabbit front disc and caliper combo on a linkpin front end....

Hubs are also available to run the same disc and Golf/Audi rear caliper on the swingaxle rear end...
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  #20  
Old November 24th 2009, 06:21
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Here in South Africa, you can buy a hub and caliper bracket kit that allows you to run a Golf MK1/Rabbit front disc and caliper combo on a linkpin front end....

Hubs are also available to run the same disc and Golf/Audi rear caliper on the swingaxle rear end...
The big problems with using the Golf/Audi rear caliper are three fold:

1) the rear caliper is undersized for most front calipers. The front/rear brake balance is severely affected. The straight transfer of a set of brakes from a front engined car is bound to cause problems as the weight transfer under braking loads the front end so that the braking effect can be distributed up to 80%/20% front/rear, whereas the beetle needs 50/50 braking effort after weight transfer. Look at the 911 set-ups to give you the idea.

2) Sliding calipers IMO are a cheap jack solution. They are designed to cheapen the production costs with (only) adequate brake performance. If you are moving from drum to disc brakes you will be doing so for performance reasons - right? If so, then you ought to discount sliding calipers in favour of opposed piston calipers of 2,4,6 or God forbid 8 pots. It is noticeable that none of the performance caliper suppliers offer a sliding caliper, they are all opposing piston calipers.

3) Parking brakes should be separate from the main caliper as they invariably weaken the reliability of the hydraulics especially at the back where there is more than enough crap being thrown around on a street car. Parking brakes on discs are also notoriously weak, inefficient and unreliable. A drum brake even if it works on the disc bell is much more efficient. If VAG don't offer a drum parking brake then GM do on most of their Euro designed cars. If however, you are stuck with the parking brake operating on the disc then a separate mechanical caliper would be the better solution. Jaguar were doing that in the '60s, Wilwood offer one and it should be easy to adapt a motorcycle one to fit.

I make no apologies for expressing my dislike for sliding caliper brakes and especially those with integral parking brake although, I will admit to having fitted some 944 single pot calipers to the front of the bug as an interim measure.

Clive
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  #21  
Old November 30th 2009, 04:12
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Originally Posted by evilC View Post
The big problems with using the Golf/Audi rear caliper are three fold:

1) the rear caliper is undersized for most front calipers. The front/rear brake balance is severely affected. The straight transfer of a set of brakes from a front engined car is bound to cause problems as the weight transfer under braking loads the front end so that the braking effect can be distributed up to 80%/20% front/rear, whereas the beetle needs 50/50 braking effort after weight transfer. Look at the 911 set-ups to give you the idea.

2) Sliding calipers IMO are a cheap jack solution. They are designed to cheapen the production costs with (only) adequate brake performance. If you are moving from drum to disc brakes you will be doing so for performance reasons - right? If so, then you ought to discount sliding calipers in favour of opposed piston calipers of 2,4,6 or God forbid 8 pots. It is noticeable that none of the performance caliper suppliers offer a sliding caliper, they are all opposing piston calipers.

3) Parking brakes should be separate from the main caliper as they invariably weaken the reliability of the hydraulics especially at the back where there is more than enough crap being thrown around on a street car. Parking brakes on discs are also notoriously weak, inefficient and unreliable. A drum brake even if it works on the disc bell is much more efficient. If VAG don't offer a drum parking brake then GM do on most of their Euro designed cars. If however, you are stuck with the parking brake operating on the disc then a separate mechanical caliper would be the better solution. Jaguar were doing that in the '60s, Wilwood offer one and it should be easy to adapt a motorcycle one to fit.

I make no apologies for expressing my dislike for sliding caliper brakes and especially those with integral parking brake although, I will admit to having fitted some 944 single pot calipers to the front of the bug as an interim measure.

Clive
I have driven a Beetle with Golf discs all round and was very impressed as to how quickly the car stopped, with no locking up etc

And the handbrake worked just fine...

Theory is one thing - Actual real world performance is another
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  #22  
Old December 1st 2009, 09:16
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i run stock bug disc's on the front with aftermarket disc's on the rear with a bug front cailper mounted on custom brakets. only have a hydro handbrake as its a compertition car but thinking about having a seperate hydro cailper at the rear just for the hand brake.
cra has 150bhp at the wheels and is quick, have not had any brake probs yet with it but putting it back 9on the road and poss some track days next year might mean having to go to vented discs on the front and some bigger cailpers.
what most forget about when doing brake upgrades is tyre conbtact as this has just as much affect on stopping as big brakes. no good have 315mm dics and 6 pot monoblock calipers if your running a 165/15 tyre
cheers rob
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  #23  
Old December 23rd 2010, 13:26
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Wanted to share , Im using Seat Ibiza 20vt brakes, Seat to all you americans is a spanish car maker from VAG family .the Ibiza share parts with Golf, the calipers are same as golf A4 and are also manufactured by Lucas, the rotors are also 288mm diameter except its 4X100 not 5X100. I machined the front drums to take the rotors. I want to thank Lanner that helped me with some advice about where to drill and tap the holes.
I hope to upload some photos soon.
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  #24  
Old December 23rd 2010, 14:59
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im wanting to fit mk1 golf gti brakes using 4x100. i wanna machine my drums down to fit over the rotor just like you did. i wanna see some pics for sure. Porsche brakes are great and all but wheel slection sucks IMO.
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  #25  
Old December 23rd 2010, 17:11
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I personally don't think they suck, they're just so expensive and have limited availability to get 16 or 17" aftermarket wheels in the 5x130 pattern Porsche uses.

Now the current 4x100, 5x100, 5x112 etc have alot better availability and are starting to have some decent offset offerings as well.
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  #26  
Old December 25th 2010, 10:00
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Hi , I uploaded some pics to the samba http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb....php?cat_id=39

I didnt make the caliper bracket yet.
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  #27  
Old December 25th 2010, 21:39
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Originally Posted by DORIGTT View Post
I personally don't think they suck, they're just so expensive and have limited availability to get 16 or 17" aftermarket wheels in the 5x130 pattern Porsche uses.

Now the current 4x100, 5x100, 5x112 etc have alot better availability and are starting to have some decent offset offerings as well.
Couldn't agree more.
I would have loved turbo twists on mine but went with 4x100 for several reasons.

once you go 5x130 your limited to Porsche only so not much of a range and all on the exy side.
Not only that offsets and widths are a problem, nearly all turbo twists are 17x7et55 on the front which works fine but 9" on the rear is a problem if you want to keep stock fenders.

4x100 rims in 17" are nearly always 7" et40-45 so fit bugs with stock fenders beautifully.
Nearly every small to medium car from mid 80s till 00s was 4x100 or 4x114.3 so choice is almost unlimited and they are always forsale both second hand or new

If I ever do it again though I will probably go 5x100 or 5x114.3 though as they're becoming more mainstream
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  #28  
Old May 28th 2011, 16:36
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Thumbs down

ok I finished the conversion with my own custom made bracket

pictures

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...?pic_id=811432
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...?pic_id=811433
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...?pic_id=811434
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