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  #16  
Old February 15th 2016, 02:21
piledriver piledriver is offline
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Resurrecting an old thread, I recently stumbled upon Bilstein SG series shocks... Coil over ready.

They come in 3 stroke lengths, take 1 7/8" ID springs, have a 36mm body (Same as Monroe OD but monotube gas) and go for about $70 ea most places.
The coil over spring mount kits are ~$40ish.

The small body and springs means they will fit in stock shock mounts.

Can be had in linear or digressive valving in just about any valving spec.

They are not rebuild-able (sealed shocks) but for $70 I think I could live with that.
These are commonly used on Midgets and sprint cars.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what springs I'd need on a fat chick squareback?

Rear tire is Cooper Zeon RS3-A 245/50-16 on 944T manhole covers 8" et 52.5, 15mm spacers.
Under stock fenders only rolled lip, converted to single springplate and some minor shaving of bumpstop and TA plate to allow room.

Last edited by piledriver; February 15th 2016 at 02:29.
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  #17  
Old December 5th 2017, 21:25
piledriver piledriver is offline
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I ended up welding proper kevlar-lined Heim ends on the Bilstein SGs, as the supplied screw on units were junk.
I also shortened them an inch and repurposed some KYBs into external reservoirs, making for a really short shock with full stroke.
This worked best up front, I ended up with 2010 digressive valving up front with 100 lb/in 12" springs, using the Bilstein kits, but the Smileys racing kits work fine.
Front torsion bars installed at-rest. (type3 so splined similar setup to rear bars)

For the rears I found some $40 "surplus" FOX 2.0 "Truck"//Ridetechs for a 1500 Chevy van, had stems on one end, removed stems, rearranged the valving and welded heims onto the stems, coil over kit from A1 racing was a "heat shrink" fit on the Truck shocks, which are much thicker wall than std Fox 2.0s.

I used Ford HP fuel pressure test ports (1/4" flare like AC) for all the schrader valves, and used my AC service setup to evacuate, degas, and fill the shocks with Redline "like water" fluid.

Used 250 lb/in 14" x2.5 coils out back, with the torsion bars installed at rest.

Day Racing in Tyler Tx supplied the Bilstein shim kits, great folk, and next day US mail for me at least.

I have detailed data on valve stack etc used if anyone cares, the f/r frequency offset works great at highway speeds no porpoising.
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  #18  
Old December 6th 2017, 12:11
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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Earlier in this thread, I referenced struts made for VW Caddys as potential coil overs for a later suspension (74-79) Super. I put my money where my mouth is a bought a set for the suspension of my son's 1303. Made by Raceland from Germany. They're TUV approved and very well made.

Couple of issue using them however. One, I had to replace the inserts immediately as they come with shortened inserts which make the whole thing far too short for a Super. Second, I had to try three different brands of inserts before I found one I felt allowed enough threads to engage on the insert cap (uses the internal thread cap).

Add to that, I have the coil overs set at max height just to be at 2.5 inch lowered, which is about as low as you can effectively run the suspension.

I'm seriously considering redoing the suspension with the same struts but adding length to the tubes to be able to use 924/944 inserts so I will have the ability to have slightly less lowering.

H2OSB
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  #19  
Old June 4th 2018, 00:16
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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Bored, looking through this thread, I thought I'd do a follow up of my last post.

I remade my struts using 944 strut housings (vs the Rabbit GTI housings I had before). Turns out 944 housings and stock 1303 housings are IDENTICAL except the top hole of the 944 housing is slotted. 100% certain of this as I layed them side by side. Contrary to an old argument the springs are the same diameter. I re-used the same ground control coil over kit I've had since about 2001.

I decided to remake the struts mainly because I felt the suspension sat too low with the combo of 2.5 inch lowering from the coil overs and about another .5 inch from the drop spindle effect caused by the 944 spindles I'm using.

With my GTI housings, I ground off everything until they were just tubes, then had a local race chassis designer create and weld on lower spring perches to support the threaded sleeve. Nothing revolutionary. Not the cheapest way to go either.

Even though I discovered 1303 and 944 housings are the same, since I now HAD the 944 housings, I decided to use for the extra camber adjustment afforded by the slotted top hole.

The way the GTI strut is shorter than a 1303 strut is by way of 1.25 inches shorter housing and 1.25 inches shorter insert rod. I didn't want to lose ALL of my lowering so i had a machinist friend make a spacer for the Rabbit insert to sit on (basically convex on the bottom and concave on the top). So I got the 1.25 inches back from the housing, but kept the 1.25 inches from the insert. Also, I saved a bundle by keeping the factory lower spring perch and had the same machinist make a bushing to fit betwixt the coil over sleeve and the strut body. All of the weight is supported by the factory spring perch. He also made a ring for the top. Both bushings keep the sleeve from rattling around. I also slipped an o-ring down around housing to help.

I'm still running 120# springs, but i swapped the 12 inch Eibach spings for the 10 inch Summit Racings springs from my son's car's coil overs. Turned out to be a better fit, lengthwise for both cars. BTW, both cars use 2.5 inch I.D. springs.

That's about it.
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  #20  
Old June 4th 2018, 03:59
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Wally Wally is offline
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Funny how springs are rated: I use 400lbs springs from AVO (UK) on the front (tried 350lbs, but the 400 are better for me).
Somehow I don't think yours are 3 times weaker then mine, so there must be some sort of different measururing method?
Anybody know how this really works? Is it # lbs per inch depression? Or??
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  #21  
Old June 4th 2018, 16:57
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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Yeah, I've often wondered about that. I will say this...the optional yellow springs Topline sells are 80 lbs/in. The red ones that come with Maxx struts are 73 lbs/in. If I had 400 lbs/in by my standard they would be nearly solid.

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  #22  
Old June 4th 2018, 17:06
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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Oh, I'm running rear 944 torsion bars (aka, T3 Squareback bars).

Along these same lines, I have a buddy with a 1302 he autoXs. He runs 170# springs up front and 28mm torsion bars. Says it rides nice, but is pretty firm. Wally, what sway bars are you running?

H2OSB
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  #23  
Old June 4th 2018, 17:15
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Wally Wally is offline
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I think I have a 23mm sway bar up front and I sometimes use a 24mm whiteline rear swaybar, but if I don't use it (like atm), I hardly feel a difference...so for now I have removed that 18 lbs weight for now
Rear are 550lbs springs (no torsion) at the moment.
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  #24  
Old June 5th 2018, 00:10
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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With that much spring rate, you can probably do without the sway bar and maintain a bit of compliance. Where do you get whiteline parts for a 1303? I thought they stopped selling parts for Supers. Is your 23mm front bar that new Kerscher/CSP bar?

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  #25  
Old June 5th 2018, 05:53
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Wally Wally is offline
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I question it is 'that much spring rate': as we agreed before, we still don't know how to compare rates, so maybe my springs aren't that stiff at all? FYI: My rear springs are the same-ish as 944-Cup springs when converted to coil-over only as per the website of Paragon Products. And those cars don;t have an engine in the rear...
So imo, my springs are relatively mild still for a circuit car, but thats just my opinion ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
Where do you get whiteline parts for a 1303? I thought they stopped selling parts for Supers. Is your 23mm front bar that new Kerscher/CSP bar?

H2OSB
At Whiteline themselves but I got it probably before they stopped selling parts for supers as you mention?. as I didn't know they stopped selling.
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  #26  
Old June 6th 2018, 14:37
flat flat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
? Is it # lbs per inch depression? Or??
That's how they are measured and marketed in North America. ie 80lb/in means it will take 80 pounds of force to depress it an inch. I reverse engineer the rate this way, add a fixed weight and measure the compression. I had cobbled together my front setup 15 years ago using honda CRX rear coils...I will take them apart and measure this fall. I'm looking for a tough more stiffness.

Wally, I'm curious on what your 400# springs are when we are talking apples to apples.
Cheers, Lanner
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