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Old July 25th 2012, 02:06
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WRX and Porsche g50 help and parts list

Hi to all the GL users and thanks in advance for any help or inoput anyone offers.

I am building a car for street use with the odd track day and run on the strip.

I am not a mechanic and my knowledge is limited to what I have learnt on here and other forums.

Ive been a member on here for about 7 years and have been trying for years to get my dream car together.Unfourtunately building such a car and finding the right people to trust and do a proper job has been a minefield to say the least.It has now come to the point of me having to take court action against the company who I paid to installed my subaru engine.I will leave it at that for now for legal reasons as the case is on going.

So its time to pull the **** engine and gearbox work out of the car and start again.

So I am well and truly bitten and obviously twice shy.

And a word of warning, be extremly cautious of any self proclaimed and so caled vw/subaru specialists who operate in the UK .

I am now trying to get some help in putting togeher a parts list and any advice for my new engine and gearbox setup.

I want to go 2 liter subaru turbo with porsche g50.

I have a 1303 with a cage,and the brakes and suspension is complete and its got 18 inch rims.

I know who I want to do the engine and gearbox workand have found a good subaru engine builder who I am more than happy with.. I need to give him an idea of how I want the power to be delivered for street use,ie not sudden bursts of power when the turbo kicks in that will throw me in a ditch.Any input from those members on here who have driven beetles on the street with 300 -350 bhp would be apreciated. I can apparently have five maps with the aftermarket ECUs so i gues that covers most situations ? I just want to ask advice on drivability, turbos clutches ie porsche or subaru hydralic ? adapter plates, etc basically a parts list.When buying a g50 what else should I try to get with it, drive shafts ? any advivce on shifters for the G50 ? drive shaft setups ?

It might seem that I am asking members to reveal all in one thread but I have done tons of reading and research on here over the years and I thought it woul be a good idea to get a thread together with lots of info in one place.I think it would also be interesting to see peoples different ideas of there ideal setups.Also any other pitfalls and problematic areas and things to be aware of

I would like to thank in advance all those involved in the site and members for keeping me interested and motivated in this great hobby of tuning/modifying of these amazing cars. AND YES I WILL GET THERE ONE DAY SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
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Last edited by graham; November 10th 2012 at 00:56. Reason: spelling mistake
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  #2  
Old July 25th 2012, 03:45
Birdman69 Birdman69 is offline
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I wouldn't recommend a g50 conversion as it is very hard to fit that and an Ej20t into a beetle with nothing hanging out. You would have to cut the torsion housing to move the gearbox forward enough to get the twin cam heads under the rear valance. Not a simple job, especially of you have to pay someone to do it.
I have just ordered a ver3 sti front cut. It comes with a 5-speed and with the use of a subarugears reversed ring and pinion kit will make the installation a whole lot easier. No adaptor plates issues, no clutch issues, cheap clutches, all factory and easy.
With regard to power, don't be tempted to put on a big turbo. I dont think you are looking for 400kw and a hand grenade?? Stick to one of the vf series turbos, 23,22,30,34 get a good intercooler (i recomend water to air) and you will have more power than you will ever need. I saw a stock wrx engined (155kw) beetle at santa pod last year doing low elevens all day long.
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Old July 26th 2012, 00:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman69 View Post
I wouldn't recommend a g50 conversion as it is very hard to fit that and an Ej20t into a beetle with nothing hanging out. You would have to cut the torsion housing to move the gearbox forward enough to get the twin cam heads under the rear valance. Not a simple job, especially of you have to pay someone to do it.
I have just ordered a ver3 sti front cut. It comes with a 5-speed and with the use of a subarugears reversed ring and pinion kit will make the installation a whole lot easier. No adaptor plates issues, no clutch issues, cheap clutches, all factory and easy.
With regard to power, don't be tempted to put on a big turbo. I dont think you are looking for 400kw and a hand grenade?? Stick to one of the vf series turbos, 23,22,30,34 get a good intercooler (i recomend water to air) and you will have more power than you will ever need. I saw a stock wrx engined (155kw) beetle at santa pod last year doing low elevens all day long.
Hi Birdman69, thanks for the response.

I have read a lot about the g50 vs the reverse cut gears option.Allthough the g50 is a more difficult install I have heard nothing but praise for these boxes from people such as Wally.Once installed it will hopefully be fit and forget to a degree but also if I ever did decide to drag race it the g50 should be good for 450 bhp.The reverse cut idea is very clever and I admire Treibler for producing it but what puts me off at the moment is the fact that it has not had much real world use/abuse,plus if he ever decided to stop making them and I needed a replacement I would be back to sqaure one.

Thanks for the turbo advice I will talk to my engine builder and ( water to air ) recomendation.

Graham
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Old July 27th 2012, 10:35
Turbonutta Turbonutta is offline
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what no aircooled....
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Old July 28th 2012, 16:31
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WRX and Porsche g50 help and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbonutta View Post
what no aircooled....
No,no aircooled, I dont want to start a debate here aircooled vs water but for me a subaru engine thats 20 years newer and thats been designed to produce large amounts of BHP and take abuse, that will have better fuel economy and give me a heater to de mist my windscreen is my chosen route.

A 300 bhp engine is what Im thinking of possibly 350 and I can get that for 4- 5 k ish.I cant see me doing that with a type 4 or type 1 engine,as I need someone else to build it for me.I have never built and engine nor want to attempt doing it.I would have a crack at putting a 1600 twin port together but large type 4s are well beyond me in both budget and ability.horses for courses, I build houses I wouldnt want an engine builder to build me a house,nuff said.

Anyway thanks for the comment all are welcome.

I am going to do some more research and go through some more of the project builds on here again and other forums and start putting a parts list together to let people see what they think, and for them to leave comments.

There are so many factors to consider and parts, and as I have said I am no mechanic just someone who wants a fast gl look bug

So parts list so far

ej20 closed deck block with 92.00mm (Std bore) Wossner forged pistons

ACL main and big end bearings

Std size crank (rear thrust position)

Williams H beam forged steel connecting rods with arp bolts

High pressure oil pump

Cometic 1.2mm steel headgaskets

Version 4 STI cylinder heads

After market ECU

bosch high pressure fuel pump ,lift pump,swirl pot

rjes shallow sump

Porsche g50 short nose

Kennedy adapter plate ?

any suggestions on clutches apreciated, ie subaru porsche
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Old July 28th 2012, 17:33
Turbonutta Turbonutta is offline
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Ah a heater now i see why you want one..

Sounds like your chosen powerplant will be awesome have you chosen an ecu yet im really happy with my omex 600,

I run a polo 1.4 liter radiator in the front valence to cool my charge cooler it has a renault 5 turbo fan on the back maybe a simular setup could cool the scoobbbyyyy lump, its all hidden by the bumper

not sure on the clutch wont kennedy do you a flywheel to mate the porsche clutch to the subaru engine, they made me a type4 to porsche 915 flywheel only issue was saving enough cash for the clutch...ouch

Was it you car in the volksworld show many years ago..if so i have a picture of it i love it
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Old July 29th 2012, 18:04
kai4130 kai4130 is offline
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Hi, guessing your not that far from me then Mr low crime rate....high drug rate though in your hood

Have you already built this subaru engine yet? My JDM motor as standard is 260bhp, ditch the cat, better exhaust and intake modifications then get it remapped and you'll be into the 275-300BHP. That's on a standard engine, at £400 a motor I'm prepared to take the risk a couple of times before I shell out the big bucks for the race motor. The people I've taken out in my car have all said its an amazing sensation of speed when it's boosting hard, its not the same for me though, my daily driver is 540bhp, I'm used to acceleration. If I could get my 915 to shift quicker then I think that my Beamer and my notch would be well matched.

Also.... What engine you basing your build one??? What year? You mention v4 sti heads. The different phase engines have different stud patterns for the inlet manifold, the later engines don't have a MAF, also the IAC is in different positions too. I ask this as you don't want to be attempting to run a phase one ecu and wiring on a phase 2 engine with phase 1.5 heads and inlet manifold. Will be difficult to get it running.

Everybody I know that's done a conversion will tell you to buy a donar vehicle and not an incomplete engine.


RJES don't make a shallow sump to my knowledge, however you can easily modify the Subaru sump to raise the bottom of it to the level of the exhaust headers gaining 25-30mm and keep the same quantity of oil.


Good luck finding short nose G50. Knowing what I know now I wouldnt fit my 915 but I'd go for the Subaru gears route. Overall it would be cheaper and easier to install.

If you for Kennedy adaptor, when you buy it tell them you want a clutch and they can supply you with one.


Too many questions to answer


OH FAMILY GUY JUST STARTED


HTH
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Old August 1st 2012, 02:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbonutta View Post
Ah a heater now i see why you want one..

Sounds like your chosen powerplant will be awesome have you chosen an ecu yet im really happy with my omex 600,

I run a polo 1.4 liter radiator in the front valence to cool my charge cooler it has a renault 5 turbo fan on the back maybe a simular setup could cool the scoobbbyyyy lump, its all hidden by the bumper

not sure on the clutch wont kennedy do you a flywheel to mate the porsche clutch to the subaru engine, they made me a type4 to porsche 915 flywheel only issue was saving enough cash for the clutch...ouch

Was it you car in the volksworld show many years ago..if so i have a picture of it i love it


Hi Turbonutta thanks for the response.

Not sure on the ecu yet but the omex has good reviews.

The polo rad sounds like a good idea I willl look into that.I spoke to someone yesterday re; the kennedy clutch he said they should do the adapter and clutch set up complete.I will have a look at Ricolas set up as he has done they same conversion and his project is incredibly well done I need to go through his build thread when I get time.

Oh and no my car wasnt at the volksworld show maybee next year.

Graham
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Old August 1st 2012, 02:50
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Originally Posted by kai4130 View Post
Hi, guessing your not that far from me then Mr low crime rate....high drug rate though in your hood

Have you already built this subaru engine yet? My JDM motor as standard is 260bhp, ditch the cat, better exhaust and intake modifications then get it remapped and you'll be into the 275-300BHP. That's on a standard engine, at £400 a motor I'm prepared to take the risk a couple of times before I shell out the big bucks for the race motor. The people I've taken out in my car have all said its an amazing sensation of speed when it's boosting hard, its not the same for me though, my daily driver is 540bhp, I'm used to acceleration. If I could get my 915 to shift quicker then I think that my Beamer and my notch would be well matched.

Also.... What engine you basing your build one??? What year? You mention v4 sti heads. The different phase engines have different stud patterns for the inlet manifold, the later engines don't have a MAF, also the IAC is in different positions too. I ask this as you don't want to be attempting to run a phase one ecu and wiring on a phase 2 engine with phase 1.5 heads and inlet manifold. Will be difficult to get it running.

Everybody I know that's done a conversion will tell you to buy a donar vehicle and not an incomplete engine.


RJES don't make a shallow sump to my knowledge, however you can easily modify the Subaru sump to raise the bottom of it to the level of the exhaust headers gaining 25-30mm and keep the same quantity of oil.


Good luck finding short nose G50. Knowing what I know now I wouldnt fit my 915 but I'd go for the Subaru gears route. Overall it would be cheaper and easier to install.

If you for Kennedy adaptor, when you buy it tell them you want a clutch and they can supply you with one.


Too many questions to answer


OH FAMILY GUY JUST STARTED


HTH
Hi mate thanks for the pointers.

Oh and the crime rates not too bad here just need to bolt everything to the fooking floor, I have put some large ornamental planters on my mums drive and I have literally bolted them into the concrete to stop em being half inched .thats London.

Ayway I here what your saying re the jdm engines but I dont want to be pulling engines in and out on a regular basis as I have to pay someone to do it. I am trying to get something built good and strong to fit, forget and then abuse.300-350 bhp with the option to increase at a later date.Whats ya views on the fact that the reverse cut option has not had much real world use/abuse and if I needed to replace the gear in the distant future and the bloke is no longer making them I will be back to square one.I think the engine will be based around a phase 1 block 1993-1995 not sure 100 % but need to talk to the engine builder to sort final spec.I am confident he will get it all sorted for me he has a good reputation and is well known in the Subaru rally scene.

I hear what your saying abot buying a complete car but I will be building a new loom fo it so fingers crossed it should all work out.

Your beamer sounds like a laugh 540 bhp, and is it you who has the blue notch ? oh and whre ya based in mate London.

Graham
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Old August 1st 2012, 04:48
kai4130 kai4130 is offline
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Yeah I know London, tis a **** hole!!!! I work up there most days, but only when only when I have too. However I live just out side Guildford, and the beamer makes light work out of the commute. I discovered yesterday that it its actually 544BHP

Dont get me wrong about you building an engine, if you've got the readies spare then why not. I just personally think you may be underestimating these Subaru EJ engines. I'm actually on my second engine but since I've discovered that the old one was fine so now I have a spare engine But the price comparison between a built motor and used second hand engine says a lot. built motor I'm guessing is +4K, were as a complete used engine is £400. Thats 10 used engines, if your going through that many engines then there is something not right with the install

Either way, as a starting point I'm happy with the amount of power my engines producing and trust me it'll be a very very long time before I'm confident to drive the VW any where near as hard as I do My BMW.


Pulling a Subaru motor from a VW Chassis is no different to pulling the VW OE engine from the same VW chassis, its a days work easy.



With the Reverse cut gears, TTriebler was done some serious R&D on this stuff before he released it, I think He's been doing it for over 4 years by now. I can recall his early days when he was just starting it. I would have gone that way myself but at the time the stuff wasn't available. I could be wrong in saying this but the company that makes the parts for him I'm sure have been making this type of stuff for decades and are a well established company.

Also my experience in failed diffs all comes under my 4X4, usually with a failed halfshaft snapping and then munching the diff internals, even then with loose bits of metal in the diff oil I've not seen the Diff ring gear or pinion gear damaged. The only damage I've seen to a ring gear is the pinion gear support bearing failing, and being left unattended resulting in massive damage to the diff ring gear and pinion gear. I know I'm talking axle Diffs here but they are the same princible to what the Subaru gears stuff does. My point is I personally dont think you'll find trouble with the Subaru gears supplied kit failing itself, the problems will be a result of who ever installed them and how well they've done it. Even then I imagine you'll just rebuld the transmission reusing the Subaru gears stuff. Also I think this is a much more cost effective solution compared to the porsche route. All the porsche components are big money from what I recall, especially at a 20 year old G50 unit fetching over £1500- £2000. For that money alone you could buy a subaru donar car, break it for parts required and sell the left overs and make your money back. Thats what I did


I'm really pleased with my phase 1 set up, if your interested I have a spare phase one modified loom and Z4 ECU (1995 JDM ECU for the WRX), save you from building one from scratch. Probably a number of other interesting goodies too


Yes thats my blue Notch, and before you ask I've fixed the color of the wing mirros





And finally, if your in need of a reputable Mechanic I can certainly vouch for mine as he helped me with my install and has done a number of interesting VW projects.
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Old August 7th 2012, 12:07
Turbonutta Turbonutta is offline
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http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

Hi Graham look at the subaru porsche 914 page maybe some cool bits there for you they do a kit of shiny bits including clutch etc

i will find the old photo..it was before digi cams where popular it really looked like the front of your car!

if you go omex or other system you wont need any subaru loom i made mine (easy peazy) and it worked....!!

TURBONUTTA
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Old August 9th 2012, 08:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graham View Post
The reverse cut idea is very clever and I admire Treibler for producing it but what puts me off at the moment is the fact that it has not had much real world use/abuse,plus if he ever decided to stop making them and I needed a replacement I would be back to sqaure one.
Gday Graham, there's more and more cars getting Subagears conversions here in Aus, just many owners aren;t on forums so you don't hear about them much.

There was a buggy racing at the track at this last weekends VW show.
It had the WRX turbo engine and subagears box with big offroad tyres and flogging around the track he managed to toast the clutch a bit but not hurt the trans at all.

It is a valid concern though that if a replacement R&P were ever needed down the track if the company ceased to exist may be tricky but I also think the R&P would be one of the last parts of a transmission that would fail.
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Old August 17th 2012, 01:23
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbonutta View Post
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

Hi Graham look at the subaru porsche 914 page maybe some cool bits there for you they do a kit of shiny bits including clutch etc

i will find the old photo..it was before digi cams where popular it really looked like the front of your car!

if you go omex or other system you wont need any subaru loom i made mine (easy peazy) and it worked....!!

TURBONUTTA
Hi, bit of a delayed response but I had to wait for some new glasses to arrive to stop me getting a headache looking at the computer.

Thanks for your comments/link TURBONUTTA that site seems interesting and I was unaware of them so thanks for that.

I will be having a chat with my engine builder today so I will talk to him about the loom.
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Old August 17th 2012, 01:27
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Gday Graham, there's more and more cars getting Subagears conversions here in Aus, just many owners aren;t on forums so you don't hear about them much.

There was a buggy racing at the track at this last weekends VW show.
It had the WRX turbo engine and subagears box with big offroad tyres and flogging around the track he managed to toast the clutch a bit but not hurt the trans at all.

It is a valid concern though that if a replacement R&P were ever needed down the track if the company ceased to exist may be tricky but I also think the R&P would be one of the last parts of a transmission that would fail.
Thanks for that Joel,I think i've made up my mind to defo go g50 now though. I almost picked one up the other day for £1200 but got beaten to it .
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Old August 17th 2012, 01:57
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Originally Posted by Joel View Post
Gday Graham, there's more and more cars getting Subagears conversions here in Aus, just many owners aren;t on forums so you don't hear about them much.

There was a buggy racing at the track at this last weekends VW show.
It had the WRX turbo engine and subagears box with big offroad tyres and flogging around the track he managed to toast the clutch a bit but not hurt the trans at all.

It is a valid concern though that if a replacement R&P were ever needed down the track if the company ceased to exist may be tricky but I also think the R&P would be one of the last parts of a transmission that would fail.
Thanks for that Joel,I think i've made up my mind to defo go g50 now though. I almost picked one up the other day for £1200 but got beaten to it .
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