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  #46  
Old December 2nd 2007, 09:29
beetle1303 beetle1303 is offline
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forgot to add something...

huge front air dams with increase the stagnation area (it is considered mostly as a point) size. thats y i believe that instead of stopping the air getting under then car, it is more efficient to use it, directing it to places that will have more positive effect such as cooling

Chris
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  #47  
Old December 2nd 2007, 17:07
effvee effvee is offline
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Stability

Hi Chris, hay I don't have any experience in this, just trying to get a safe car in the end. So I'll post in the end on how the results came out. I love this talk, due to it gives us all avenues of possibilities. Now back to the dirty air concept, I really believe deflecting as much air from under the car while considering the pan area and lite weight of the VW; need real consideration. The venturi effect, is really an issue for temperature and air speed causing a vacuum effect, but does not effect the under pan (in my opnion). Now I don't know: confused: but dips, bumps and the like will cause the care to need to get ride of the extra air of the rebound. My car (work in progress) has the rear window slits/and interior louvers altered. that means I removed the louvers behind the rear window slits. So as air in the area of the rear window rolls, it should cause a lift, but having the slits/interior louvers removed and reverse louvers applied; will still suck, but on what? I think the 28 blade fan will do fine for itself (normal type 1 fan). Also weather it sucks or blows, the engine tin, can be altered (for my application) to further aid in the lifting rear end issue. I have also alter my behind the seat area to accept my muffler there, so the tin can be drilled with lighting holes to aid in keeping the air moving along.

Last edited by effvee; December 2nd 2007 at 17:10.
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  #48  
Old December 3rd 2007, 10:34
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oasis oasis is offline
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Location: timonium, md usa
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Before Kamei spoiler:


Two angles with Kamei spoiler:





When my 1302 was without the Kamei spoiler, I had a stock engine. I rarely went up to 70 MPH. It was an insecure feeling once I got to 65-70 MPH.

I did 110 MPH once since the Type IV upgrade with the front spoiler. Driving was much, much more secure. While driving over 90 is unusual for me on a daily basis, driving at 70 is not so unusual. The spoiler makes a big difference -- even around 18-wheelers.

The extra air for cooling is a noble idea but thus far I don't need it with a DTM cooling system.

I have no experience with a roof spoiler. I was considering one from Carbon Joe before he stopped production.
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  #49  
Old December 4th 2007, 04:07
beetle1303 beetle1303 is offline
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Oasis, im glad that the kamei front spoiler, works wonders. i had driven once a 1303 with a kamei and a whale tail spoiler running a 1.6 subaru engine with the rad in the whale tail ( made ita veeerryyy tail heavy). no real difference up to 60-70 Km/h, but after that it made a difference and it was feeling rock solid up to 160 km/h. I happen to ride shotgun in the same car without the spoiler (broken) and it was a nightmare going over 70 km/h

effvee, from my understanding, the louvred sheetmetal behind the slits under the rear window, is there to in some way relieve some turbulence from the air.
Ive seen it in another bug over here in Greece that runs in the hillclimb championship. To be honest i was against this practice, but it was done in a fashion to (hopefullly) aid more air in and save weight...If i get permission from the people on the project, i can post u some pics of the matter.

On the other hand i got some questions...

Deflecting as much air as possible from getting under the car. I ll go for that to some extent. but what this has to do with the beetle's little weight? what do u mean by extra consideration? as to if it is generated, or how much effect there is to be worthwhile investigating into it and modifying the pan?
IMO it will be profitable to use a venturi effect to aid downforce than use a huge wing.

Quote:
Now I don't know: confused: but dips, bumps and the like will cause the care to need to get ride of the extra air of the rebound

Are we still lurking under the car, or we stood up, cos of sore backs to discuss the over the car air??

Btw google for a guy named Luigi Colani. he is a great genious. an original designer/inventor. he does ridiculus things through aerodynamics. If u like books get his book from Thames& Hudson: Colani: Fifty Years of Desining the Future ( ISBN 0-500-34204-0). it is fascinating...

Chris
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  #50  
Old December 4th 2007, 14:29
effvee effvee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle1303 View Post
Oasis, im glad that the kamei front spoiler, works wonders. i had driven once a 1303 with a kamei and a whale tail spoiler running a 1.6 subaru engine with the rad in the whale tail ( made ita veeerryyy tail heavy). no real difference up to 60-70 Km/h, but after that it made a difference and it was feeling rock solid up to 160 km/h. I happen to ride shotgun in the same car without the spoiler (broken) and it was a nightmare going over 70 km/h

effvee, from my understanding, the louvred sheetmetal behind the slits under the rear window, is there to in some way relieve some turbulence from the air.
Ive seen it in another bug over here in Greece that runs in the hillclimb championship. To be honest i was against this practice, but it was done in a fashion to (hopefullly) aid more air in and save weight...If i get permission from the people on the project, i can post u some pics of the matter.

On the other hand i got some questions...

Deflecting as much air as possible from getting under the car. I ll go for that to some extent. but what this has to do with the beetle's little weight? what do u mean by extra consideration? as to if it is generated, or how much effect there is to be worthwhile investigating into it and modifying the pan?
IMO it will be profitable to use a venturi effect to aid downforce than use a huge wing.

Quote:
Now I don't know: confused: but dips, bumps and the like will cause the care to need to get ride of the extra air of the rebound

Are we still lurking under the car, or we stood up, cos of sore backs to discuss the over the car air??

Btw google for a guy named Luigi Colani. he is a great genious. an original designer/inventor. he does ridiculus things through aerodynamics. If u like books get his book from Thames& Hudson: Colani: Fifty Years of Desining the Future ( ISBN 0-500-34204-0). it is fascinating...

Chris


Quote:
Now I don't know: confused: but dips, bumps and the like will cause the care to need to get ride of the extra air of the rebound

Are we still lurking under the car, or we stood up, cos of sore backs to discuss the over the car air??

Well that's it for me Chris, I think the post is going in a direction, that I choose not to go further. Good luck
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