Arms, Arms, Arms!!!

[Panelfantastic]

Just trying to mimic stock geometry. When I look under a stock IRS, the inner pivot point is in direct line with the springplate/torsion bar pivot point even though they turn on different axis(s). Since I've ditched the torsion setup all together plus turned the inner mount up several inches to correct camber at my lowered ride height, I'm trying to pay close attention to making sure the pivot points still line up so that I won't have suspension bind. I've tweaked this thing around completely away from stock with nothing to go on but a guess, I've never seen it done, could be completely ska-rood... oh, and did I mention I suck at geometry?
Not sure what you mean by offset? I have changed the stock inner mounting point but am also setting the outer point to match it... so they would both be "offset" from stock.

[roo]

Dorigtt, yes on my irs bug i have narrowed just the torsion tubes and according to my calculations the only difference i have to make is when i mount my heim, instead of mounting it in the middle of the torsion tube so the pivot centerline is the same as the centerline of the stock torsion bars i just move the hiem back 9/16" and it SHOULD retain stock geometry. HOWEVER panelfantastic you say you turned the trailing arm pivot up? hmm is it directly on top of the torsion tube or is it somewhere inbetween that and stock? you might be able to level the bus and measure the angle vertically that it has been changed and "offset" the heim the same angle 9/16". (this is assuming you didn't move the inner trailing arm pivot in just rotated it and narrowed the torsion tube 2") what i am reffering to when i say "offset" is instead of mounting the heim with the pivot centerline in the middle of the torsion tube you "offset" it in my case towards the back of the car 9/16". in your case you will probably end up "offsetting" it from the torsion tube center not back as in my case but up and back the same angle your inner pivot has been turned. hope this helps. let me know. also i have talked to 55superbeetle who has narrowed his torsion housing 2" per side and he said the caster was fine throughout with stock swing arm pivot location but he is going to use a hiem not sure if he's gonna offset it. and out of curiosity do you think it was necessary to rotate the trailing arm pivot like that? i know on mine i think i could go preeetty low before i have to worry about that at all with stock arms.

[Panelfantastic]

Roo, we are definately talking the same talk. I think you are spot on with the offset idea. My whole deal with rotating the pivot was definately nessecary, I think the PO set it up wrong when he did the IRS conversion. IRS is supposed to be more forgiving on the lowering/camber issue but mine had some serious camber / \ . While looking in at the mount from the side, imagine a clock face. My mounts were originally "clocked" at about 7:00. I've now rotated them up to almost 9:00. That is a huge amount! and I think they were that much off when the conversion was done...
I don't have a fixed mount on the frame for the heim yet. I'm going to assemble the whole arm with my new heim link/bar installed on the arm already and that magic pivot line already set (off of the vehicle) . Then bolt it to the bus using the inner mount, eyeball my toe alignment and let the heim point to where it wants it's mount to be... hope this makes sense and you can agree with my direction.
You mentioned moving the inner pivot in or out... according to another forum member, this is a geometry no-no. That pivot point is supposed to line up with the output flange on the transaxle (if you drew a line across the flange straight forward, it would intersect the pivot). Now having said that... it is impossible to do on my bus. Bus was not designed to have IRS and the frame horns widen out up there at the torsion tube. My mounts are over an inch outset past the magic pivot line. How much does this affect my suspension?... who knows... at this point, I am so far removed from what the engineers designed, it will be a miracle if it works...but I am gonna try and it is gonna be cool!

[ppp]

just my 2 cents but...when that inner pivot moves up your toe setting will change also. and i would double check all setting before final weld. good luck.

[Panelfantastic]

Yes it did. I noticed it made the front/leading edge "toe in" slightly.
Thanks for watching out for me! You know I don't know what I'm doing!

[roo]

so if i'm picturing this right your going to slide a pipe or similar into the trailing arm pivot hole/bushing then mount your spring plate/hiem joint on the arm and adjust the heim so it sits in the center of the pipe. then mount the trailing arm and see where the heim likes to be? i know you don't want to hear it but it would have been sooo much easier had the conversion been done right the first time. oh well. the only suggestion i have is when you are test fitting i would go with urethane bushings. if they start to squeak put rubber ones in but the urethane's will flex alot less when your trying to test fit and line everything up. i wish you luck and keep us posted. cheers!

[Panelfantastic]

Exactly!

Yes, the PO did a lot of half-a$$ed stuff. The front was lowered by removing all but two of the leaves! Some people should not work on stuff... my ideas are exteme (and crazy ) but I will use the best parts I can and try to do it right.

Already got the urethanes, gonna use'em squeaks or not.

[roo]

could someone clue me in as to who exactly the PO is. heard them reffered to in another post also.

[Panelfantastic]

Sorry Roo, you can tell I spend wayyy to much time on forums....
"PO" stands for previous owner.

[Pillow]

Looking good Panel!

I put in the rear IRS on my '66 a few weeks ago... Wow is it low! Too low really (I will probably get flamed for that thinking ).

In my case I just dropped the spring plates one spline to allow everything to line up close. First drama was that I did not want the CVs to pop (T2 ones) from too much angle. Second was that the shocks using the stock upper bus mounts and stock IRS lower mounts with early Bilstiens (for swing axle VWs) are just too short and limit how high I could set the car up.

Panel, what shocks did you previously use? I remember you mentioned that you used stock top mounts with regular shocks... I guess if it was lowered no big deal...?

I also have some / \ wheel issues at the moment, but I just need to go and get it on a rack to straighten it up. I am using the clamp style from Bus Boys as well.

... Problem now is that the front is way to high relative to the rear! Not cool at all. Needs addressed I am thinking with drop spindles good for 2.5", still need it lower though.

Also I need to work out the rear shock issue so I can raise it up in the rear.

Take Care,

[Panelfantastic]

Pillow, not sure my mounts were stock. The top one looked stock in shape, but the welds holding it on didn't. The lower mount definately looked like it had been cut off and welded back on the arm. Why he did all that ? The lower part of the shock body was in a bind (angle of the shock in the mounting cup) at ride height. So much in fact, it dented and rubbed a hole in the shock body. It had bug sized GR-2s. Why did he do all that welding on the mounts only to have the shock in a bind so bad it ruined the shock???

Uhhmm, did you say too low? You can get one too low? Seriously, mine won't be that low either, you can quickly get impratical and multiply your headaches trying to get too low. You and I share the same thought, low is cool but suspension has to work and we like to use our buses also.

The clamp ons rock! Being able to rotate them a little to correct camber is the cat's pajama's! You might have to slot your spring plate mount holes to correct toe though (if they're not already slotted).

Pics of progress are nice to look at. (hint, hint )