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  #181  
Old February 3rd 2012, 04:16
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As it turns out, tonight I started on [both] the Kafer bar and the oil system! First up was the Kafer, or rear truss, bar. The upper shock mounts required grinding away some of the body, and then I got to the lower mounts. Here I found a fairly big issue. When building my transmission mount I totally forgot to take into account the truss bar mounts, and have created a bit of a problem. Sliding the truss bar mounts in between the trans mount and frame horns isn't going to work, as it will push my trans back and stress the mounts. I was going to weld them behind and up-high, but the way I double layered the metal on the trans mount means that would be a whole lot of welding and work. Combine all this with me forgetting which frame horn bolt was the one with iffy threads...and it was a challenging evening.

When I fit the Porsche transmission to the frame, I did so with the floorpan upside down. Thus the "left side" frame horn bolt was the one with damaged threads. Now, of course, the floor pan is right-side-up, but my brain was still thinking "left". After cross-threading the frame horn insert, I spent quite a bit of time dismantling things before I could cleanup and repair the threads. Missed the closing hour of the industrial store in town, so the truss bar remains half finished until I can buy some hardware. I'll end up bolting on the lower mounts, which wasn't my initial preference but will leave me with plenty of options down the road. Everything is just hanging out in the photo below, I'll shoot proper photos tomorrow once it's finished.


With that project stalled, I moved onto the oil system. Much like wiring, it's a good idea to have a map of where you're planning to go!


With my plan finish, I started by mounting up the tank. With the tank in place I can start visualizing where everything is going to go in the car, so I can start sorting out the fittings. I'm trying to plan ahead so I have the correct fittings at the correct time, without a need to reorder every night. Now is also the time to decide if things like the oil filter mount need right or left ports, or whether the accusump valve should go "here" or "there". The seat goes in, the seat comes out...there is plenty of movement and scribbling on paper, but not much to show here in photos!


My head was really set on getting the truss bar finished so that I could "move on" to other projects. I tend to find when I get significantly stalled, and the hour is getting later, I revert to doing silly little jobs that are usually out of order. When I found myself thinking about running the Air-Fuel gauge wire, I knew it was time to take a break!



...and really, there is always time for Top Gear ;-)

-Dave
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  #182  
Old February 3rd 2012, 09:50
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Hi Dave,
I see your kafer bar but does it have the strut that connects to the frame horn at the inner trailing arm mount? Are you running heat exchangers?
I have been pondering this installation for some time and I sat down with my friendly structural engineer and crunch a few ideas and numbers:
To retain the heat exchangers the strut from the tranny cradle needs to bend around the heat exchanger and connect to the damper top bolt bracket. this bent strut needs to be stiff in bending so a thick wall tube will be required but the loads are relatively light. We did also discuss adding braces back to the cross bar but decided that put the bar in too much bending.
Your arrangement looks suspect from the photo. The tranny strut should not connect to the crossbar as again this will put the bar into a bending stress. Without the forward strut to the trailing arm mount the load from the tranny strut will apply a bending moment to the upper damper bolt that is only 10mm diameter. This load is cyclic and expect the bolt to fatigue especially as a rally car will flex the frame horns unmercifully. The position of the tranny strut on the crossbar accentuates the bending moment. Because of the geometry, the forged damper strut will also be put in lateral bending.
Sorry to be negative and if I have got it wrong I apologise but it easier to discuss this now rather than at servicing on an event.

regards

Clive
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  #183  
Old February 4th 2012, 00:05
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Hi

To me the Kafer cup bar having the attaching points inboard from the shock bolt reduces the triangulation affect that your trying to achieve.

I have one of Lanners bars on my sons bug, fits great with heater boxes or A1s.

I noticed in your oil system schematics that your going to have an Accusump in the system, is that like wearing panst with barces and a belt? Or are you doing this from a point of having oil pressure on start up from the Accusump?

Steve
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  #184  
Old February 4th 2012, 00:26
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the comments on the brace. Having thought about it a little further, I think you guys are correct, and will need to rework the brace I have or look at some other options. For much of the afternoon I was thinking about how the factory cars didn't have any bracing...and then it hit me. "oh right, they weren't coil over conversions" :P I think I'm starting to rethink things far too much!

So I guess at this point I should break it down to the basics:

1) I'm going to be running heater boxes
2) Due to #1 I determined that a 3 bar setup was the way to go.
3) Will either need to move the mounts on the current bar or look for another option.

Moving the mounts will likely require longer bars, so I'm heading back into fab-territory any way I slice it.

Hmmmm.

As for the Accusump, its totally overkill on the system as it sits...but you did hit the nail on the head. Since I already own it from the '69 project, I might as well add it into this car for the purpose of start-up oil pressure.

-Dave
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  #185  
Old February 4th 2012, 04:55
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I run a dry sump set up and even with the tank in the front of the car i have never had any start up presure issuses. i think the acusump is a extra that dont need to be in the system. why carry more wieght and the extra places for leaks?
the kafer brace that you have on your car is a poor design, sorry. if your running coil over rear then i would strongly sujest you run a 5 bar brace as the loads that will be fed into the top shock mounts is going to be very high. i would brace the top shock mounts like the class 11 Baja cars do for peace of mind. you dont want to be bending or brakeing them.
car looks great by the way
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  #186  
Old February 4th 2012, 15:14
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+1 on that style kafer brace, but only from personal experience. Don't get me wrong, it's better than nothing, but it doesn't do much for the frame horns. I still have one on my car but I'm going to upgrade to a mendeola bolt in kafer brace.

That being said, I love the progress updates, and I'm probably going to copy a few of your ideas
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  #187  
Old February 4th 2012, 17:08
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Don't worry guys, after giving it about 30seconds of thought from the original couple of posts I realized the bar was a no-go. Initially I thought I'd bolt it up for now and fix it once the engine is in, but then realized the oil cooler would be in the way. Thus, I've been digging my engine and heater boxes from storage so that I can rework what I have.

This is one of the reasons for posting up the build in a thread like this, find the problems before I'm committed to them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by judgie View Post
I run a dry sump set up and even with the tank in the front of the car i have never had any start up presure issuses. i think the acusump is a extra that dont need to be in the system. why carry more wieght and the extra places for leaks?
It's not about having start-up pressure issues, it's about being able to pressurize the engine before you even turn the key. The accusump eliminates those first few seconds of cranking where the oil pump hasn't built up oil pressure yet. Open the valve, and almost instantly the engine is at whatever pressure you shut the valve off at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by judgie View Post
the kafer brace that you have on your car is a poor design, sorry. if your running coil over rear then i would strongly sujest you run a 5 bar brace as the loads that will be fed into the top shock mounts is going to be very high. i would brace the top shock mounts like the class 11 Baja cars do for peace of mind. you dont want to be bending or brakeing them.
car looks great by the way
The possibility of a 5-bar brace was eliminated due to retaining the factory heat...but perhaps I'll revisit that now that I'm tossing the engine in and going custom anyways. The class-11 setups I've seen all mount the shock inside the body to the roll bar. Ideal, sure, but I didn't want to cut the body up.

I'm going to futz around with the welder and come to comfort with my compromises :P

Thanks guys!

-Dave
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  #188  
Old February 5th 2012, 03:10
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Hi

I made a 3 bar setup with some eBay rose joints and a bit of molly tube, the molly tube is much smaller in OD than most conventional Kafer cup bars which is handy when space is tight.

Steve



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  #189  
Old February 5th 2012, 03:51
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Alrighty, so I got a bit of time in on the car today...but not nearly as much as I had hoped (isn't that always the way). Much of my day was spent chasing around the various things I would need for the truss bar job...steel tube, hardware, heater boxes, my borrowed jack that never returned...etc. Regardless, by the time I started the hours were disappearing fast. First up was bolting on the lower mount, which as soon as I had done so a second flashing red light went off which I hadn't thought about. The entire thing is build in single-shear. Single shear is, to quote Carroll Smith, "criminal". Hmmm...its going to be quite tough to turn this mount into double shear. Not impossible, but significantly challenging in my garage.


Eventually I decided the best course of action is to set the whole thing up in single shear, with the parts clearing the engine and heater boxes, and then figure out if I can modify the mounts for double shear. With the necessary bits in hand, I was lacking in just one thing...someone to help me lift the engine onto the jack. Hmph. I figured i might as well mock up one potential tab, and then I at least have a starting point when I slide the engine in. With this tab, both rod ends would mount to the same ear on the shock bolt spacer. I can easily get the one rod end in double shear down the road, not quite sure how I would do the second. Sorry, apparently I forgot a more detailed shot.


I figured before I wasted any more time playing with mounts that didn't fit, I'd simply wait until I had a hand with the engine before going any further. So I worked on some less important jobs, like mounting up the clutch release arm, and attaching the custom bits my buddy Scott made a while back. If I'm putting the engine in to test the brace clearance, might as well setup the clutch pedal too! This will, of course, require some new engine mounting studs...but I have a Type-4 block in storage that may have some installed. Will have to check tomorrow.

I did manage to clean up and revive the old gas-breather hose. With some trimming I later removed any cracks at the end and popped it into the car. Now all I need is that really small breather tubing and the fuel tank will really be done for once.


The side vents for the car that I have are pretty dry-rotted on the plastic. The aluminum rings are good, but the plastic is not. I figured I should try and find a way to make them look presentable, and since I had time waiting around, today was the day.


First up, the vents were given plenty of heavy coats of Plasti-Dip from a spray can. This doesn't smooth out the plastic, but it does give it a uniform color and maybe, if I'm lucky, prevent further try rotting.


Once fully dry, I ran around the aluminum trim part with a razor blade, and started peeling. The beauty of plasti-dip is it's rubbery and flexible, and thus can be peeled off later on.


Original vent on the right, plasti-dip vent in the middle, peeled vent (with bad aluminum ring) on the left. You can see in the middle how the plastic is still very rough...but I suspect from anything further away then a few inches, you'll never notice it mounted on the car. With the test units working out so well, I've sprayed down my 'good' set of vents.


I also started working on the turn signal switch finally...


...but got interrupted by my buddy who came by to help lift the engine. With that down, I'm good to go for the Truss brace tomorrow. I hope to get a significant dent taken out of the job before I have to go to sleep. Probably could have done that tonight, but we instead decided to head down to Vancouver for some very, very loud noises...


It was a tonne of fun being 12 again...but when you're in your thirties you get to buy seats five rows from the front! :P

-Dave
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  #190  
Old February 6th 2012, 04:40
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one thing i would check on the kafer brace is clearnace between the bars and the drive shafts at full bump. building it on axle stands and full droop it looks like you have lots of room but with the suspension fully compresed its going to be tight.
a few of the bars i have fitted have had to be reworked for clearance.
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  #191  
Old February 6th 2012, 16:11
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Whew! That was an interesting Sunday.

So the day started off relatively simple. Engine off the stand and ready: check. Heater boxes? check. Jack up the motor, slide it in and....wait, why won't it slide on? Hmph, splines are lined up...I know a Type-1 clutch disc fits the 901...so why is this not sliding on? After a checking a few things, I finally popped the clutch disc off and slid it onto the splines. "Ahhhh, there's your problem!" Time to clean the corrosion out of the splines...


Once the corrosion was cleaned out, I lubed up the splines with graphite and everything slid together like butter.

While I'm here, and have photos, what's the thought on this clutch disc? There are a couple of minor chips around two of the rivets, but otherwise just glazed. I'm thinking it's probably reusable...but now would be the time to swap it out if its not.


With that, it was on to making the truss bar mounts. This took a fair bit of time, testing and tweaking, and test fitting some more. Both the left and right rear truss bars extend off the upper mount about 2" before the eyelet bolts on. I did buy the material necessary to make longer bars, but the angles just mean I'm going to be interfering with the heater boxes. The mounts I made are 5mm plate, and while the photos don't show it, they were later boxed to make them as strong as possible.




The top bar going across between the two shock mounts is going to be replaced today with a piece of 1" chromoly tubing. The threaded ends from the current bar will be cut off, turned down on the lathe and welded into the ends. Once I get the final engine and heaterboxes (might could use a replacement) in the car, I hope to do the same with the lower bars as the chromo should be stronger overall. Now, with all the fears of snapping my upper shock mounts off, I did start to look at the potential for the forward facing bars. I really don't think there is any possibility of sending a couple of bars down to the torsion tube with the factory heat. What I could potentially do, however, is run a set of bars over to the frame horns, just above where the parking brake cables exit the frame horn. I'm not sure there is enough benefit to warrant putting them in. The bars would essentially be running Left-Right, just going down to the frame horns instead of all the way across. They would be in addition to the other three, so I anticipate some benefit...but is it enough?

Last step for the weekend was to triple check everything clears, even thought I had been checking as I worked. Here's the clearance with the suspension under full compression. Some of the photos show the bump stop just touching, but I did jack up each side until the bump stop compressed enough that I was lifting the car and engine.





While checking the clearances I discovered a gross miscalculation i had made while setting up the coil-over shocks. A problem which had me Googling and surfing for potential solutions for quite some time. When I installed the shocks I knew I would need to reinforce the lower shock mount, and modify it to fit the shock eyelet better. I remember at one point a friend said to me "are you sure the shock will clear the CV boots?" to which I replied yes. Apparently I didn't check it closely enough!


You can clearly see at full compression there is no possible way that CV joint is going to survive. So this presents two major issues for me. 1) what the heck am I going to do for a solution, and 2) if I messed this up so badly...what else did I screw up? First up was about 3 hours of surfing, both in the Germanlook Forums, and the Class-11 Baja forums to see what solutions I could find. Class 11 used to require that stock lower mounts were used (guys would cut them off, and reweld them to the control arm) but the rules were later changed to simply requiring the shock be mounted to the trailing arm. Now they box their trailing arms and mount the lower eye to the top, and the upper eye inside the car on the cage. Well, that won't help. Fortunately here on the GL forums I found a New Zealand race car that solved the issue by putting all new mounts on the bottom, and then for the really trick piece, used center-driveshaft CV's to solve the clearance problem. Some time spent with cardboard, running the suspension up and down and lots of measuring confirms that I will be able to solve my issues in a similar manner...but I'm going to see if I can't get the car on a lift to make it easier.

Knowing that there is a straight-forward solution to my problem, I was able to return to the garage with an objective mind. I started at the front of the car, and literally went over the car from front to back inspecting and rethinking every job I've done to date. Nothing was left without scrutiny, everything was moved throughout it's full range of motion...double and triple checked everything. Thankfully I didn't find any other mistakes! Well, at least mistakes that I can recognize at the moment! :P Whew!


So I ended my Sunday going back to the books to see if I could come up with some ideas on how to change this bar setup over to double-shear. For a couple of the mounts I don't think it's going to be too big of an issue, but four of the six are going to be quite challenging. Now that I've missed the best winter TSD rally, and I'm likely to miss the ice racing series, it does relieve a bit of the stress. The first couple of months with the car are definitely going to be testing, which does leave me some options. The weakest link is now the hardware, mounted in single-shear. I'm thinking I may run the bar as is for a month of testing, where I can go hit the forest roads near home, and immediately head back to the garage. Any weaknesses in the truss setup will show up as bends in the hardware first, followed by breaking them. should the hardware show signs of problems, I'd likely order a whole new bar setup (Lanner's). If it doesn't, I could then double-shear it as a spring project before any summer gravel events.

Part of me thinks this is a great way to confirm that I either need, or don't need, a 5-bar setup. My thinking is that if the 3-bar setup is shown to have issues, I'll need to ditch the factory heat in favor of a proper five bar setup. The other half of me figures I'm missing out on the opportunity to just double-shear it all right now when it's easiest :P

At least it's starting to look like a car and less like a shell...





-Dave
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Last edited by owdlvr; February 6th 2012 at 16:23.
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  #192  
Old February 7th 2012, 02:37
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Alrighty...Kafer bar is torn down, new upper bar has been made, spacers for my shocks (to eliminate the stack of washers) have been made on the lathe...and everything is painted and drying. Photos tomorrow once I get it all installed in the car. It's one of the rare bits which isn't painted all one color, thought I would see what it looked like tomorrow and make a decision. Finished up installing the new turn signal switch (thanks again Chris!) and then traced down all the wiring for it to make sure it's working correctly. A short night, and off early to bed while the paint dries.



-Dave
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  #193  
Old February 7th 2012, 06:14
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one thing i would do and have done in the past for anything that is handed and could be removed in service is to paint it differnat colours. so all left hand parts of the car are blue and the right side is red. even if its just a ring of tape on the parts it means you dont spend time trying to fit the wrong part on the wrong side in service.
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  #194  
Old February 8th 2012, 04:12
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Well, I got the entire truss bar installed...still in single-shear. I'm going to leave it for now, and revisit the truss bar once everything else is done. I've got a pretty hefty deadline looming over me for a car that has no doors, glass, engine or oil system! Tough to photograph it quickly before bed though...







With that done I gave the brakes another bleed, extracting more air out of the rear. The pedal is still sinking about 2.5", so I have more to go. Dropped the front of the car as low as I can get it, and we'll do a two-man bleed in a day or two to see if that doesn't solve it for good. With the brakes getting better, I was able to setup the pedal stop. But that in turn had my head going for a bit of a loop...


The clutch pedal seems to be deeply inset in comparison to the brake pedal. I checked Bentley, and confirmed that I was correct in the setup. Neither the brake bleed nor the clutch cable adjustment should change the static position of the pedals. But, this was vastly different then my last bug. I called up the new owner of the '69, and had him check the garage. Yup, the clutch pedal on that car was about .5" higher then the brake pedal. Hmmmm, that's odd. Fortunately I save all the rusty factory parts until I'm sure whatever replacement I've chosen is a viable solution. Out came the old pedal cluster and I confirmed that the clutch and brake pedal really should sit like this. Makes sense, I seem to think that cars are generally setup so that the first pedal you hit is the brake...

On to the next project! I had to sell my Carbon Joe rock guards with my '69 Beetle. Well, they're on loan...until Scott decides to repaint or replace the fenders. So, combine one part fender, with two parts matte black vinyl...


Layer #1:


Layer #2, a bit harder to do!


...but the hardest part? Duplicating it on the other side. I'm close...not close enough that they match, but since you can't ever see both at once...I think I'm close enough

Nice to see the paintwork matches the vinyl though! In person it's almost perfect.


I was going to mount the rears up tonight...then I realized that mounting fenders to fresh paint late at night is probably a recipe for disaster. Better to wait for tomorrow.

-Dave
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  #195  
Old February 9th 2012, 03:03
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I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the thread or not, but as I was loading the body shell onto the trailer for paint...I tore all the muscles in my lower back. Of course, the next day I dropped the car OFF for paint...which meant unloading the shell again. In the process, I managed to drop the back part of the body off the trailer. Oops! We knew instantly that we bent the back part of the engine bay...but, Gerry and Lorne of GLI Autoworks straightened it all out for me.

Now for the bad part.

After getting the car home, I had it up on the steel saw horses to fit the rear shocks and then attach the pan. In the time that the body was resting on the saw horses, it was slowly bending out back. Enough so that I actually had measurement points and was working feverishly as it was bending an 1/8" an hour. Come rear fender time...I knew it was going to be a problem. Initial fit was like so:


Now, at first glance you might not think this is so bad. But all the fender bolts aren't even in yet. Can't get them in. You can see how the body splayed out at the bottom, and bent inwards further up. To fix it, I needed some specialty tools...


What's that? A piece of aluminum barstock, two bolts and a scrap of aluminum plate aren't a specialty tool? In the hands of an expert (or, in this case a complete nutter with no sense of bodywork what-so-ever), they are the perfect solution. Simply pull, bend, flex and mangle the bodywork until you think you've done enough...then double it...and finally mount the fender to check your work. Alignment after the first try:


Now, we could probably get that just a little bit better. In fact, if you were my friend Geoff and saw these photos you'd probably insist that we get this a little bit better. But sometimes, playing it safe and not going any further is smarter. And, sometimes, a few ripples and potential misfit of the rear Apron are okay. Why?

Because Race Car.

;-)

Moving on, we add some fender beading...a bit of frustration over the exact order to tighten the bolts to snug up your fender and make it look as absolutely straight as possible...stand back, and enjoy the view.




Tomorrow I'll mount up the other fender, and then perhaps mount a rim and tire to see if the gravel tires I already own will even fit. Oh sure, that might have been something to check before I painted the car...but where is the fun in that!?!

-Dave
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