GermanLook Forums  

Go Back   GermanLook Forums > Technical Section > Engines

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 19th 2013, 16:37
onixbonilla's Avatar
onixbonilla onixbonilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 173
External oil cooler with Porsche style shroud

Hi everyone! More than 10 years ago I got a Remmele Porsche Fan Shroud and airbox. I am very aware that it is a general consensus that the stock VW fan shroud is better than most Porsche style shrouds. Anyway we want to use it only for the "looks" as this car is mainly used for club meetings, shows and sporadic weekend use. So will like to know where would be the best place to connect the external oil cooler?
1-I though just to connect it to an oil cooler adapter from the stock oil cooler position so the oil would only goes to the cooler when the oil pressure valves open as the same way the stock oil cooler works.
2-Also as the engine have full flow system it could be connected to the full flow lines with a thermostat.
Will like to read your recommendations!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old September 20th 2013, 04:46
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 545
Quote:
I am very aware that it is a general consensus that the stock VW fan shroud is better than most Porsche style shrouds.
Hi Onixbonilla, who told you that? If the stock cooling system works better than a 911 type system than the shroud being used is the problem.There are a lot of copies out there and many of them just plain suck and are for looks only,especially for type 1.With a proper shroud like Remmele,GWD,MSS for type 1 they will all outperform any type 1 cooling system on the market,including the DTM.
CSP has adapters for both of your possibilities.For type 1 I would go the full flow route.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 21st 2013, 06:30
T5WOB's Avatar
T5WOB T5WOB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: dorset england
Posts: 88
i went down the full flow route .
804103_10151449026178058_687725140_n by martin.vw, on Flickr
804387_10151449005583058_1533557009_n by martin.vw, on Flickr"]
804387_10151449005583058_1533557009_n by martin.vw, on Flickr[/URL]
photo by martin.vw, on Flickr
__________________
kerb$ide ku$toms
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old September 21st 2013, 14:47
onixbonilla's Avatar
onixbonilla onixbonilla is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Turbobug View Post
Hi Onixbonilla, who told you that? If the stock cooling system works better than a 911 type system than the shroud being used is the problem.There are a lot of copies out there and many of them just plain suck and are for looks only,especially for type 1.With a proper shroud like Remmele,GWD,MSS for type 1 they will all outperform any type 1 cooling system on the market,including the DTM.
CSP has adapters for both of your possibilities.For type 1 I would go the full flow route.
Hi! Thanks for the response. I made that "statement" from my lectures from the never ending threads of which is better, where industry leaders such as Mr DTM had being posting against it. Although I should say that I have profound respect to his work it is clera that his bias it is something that can not be removed as he have a product to sell in that aspect. Anyway what I intended was to avoid people began to reply of get rid of the Porsche fan and use the stock, but it is very good to me to hear you have a good opinion on the Remmele shroud.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 21st 2013, 20:05
effvee effvee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: California
Posts: 678
Stf

Hi I left STF because Mr.DTM referred to people that used 911 shroud-cooling system as dumb blonds. Although STF is a good site, I feel they protected Mr.DTM. If someone said something that was not the norm for the TypeIV, Mr.DTM would try and pounce. Joe made the DTM, not mr.DTM. when Joe passed his son was not doing much with the dtm. So Mr. DTM offered Joe's son to either sell the rights or since the then DTM had no patent , he would start building it. I was able to get walters prototype 911 shroud. At some point I will have it on a type IV. I will not think twice as to if I will run a 911 cooling system, with remote cooler. Iwant high oil pressure approx 60-80 psi. Those grommets won't hold that kind of pressure. J.C. enterprise sell a filter adapter with internal pressure regulator for 60psi, that's the ticket for me. With dual turbos,oil squirters ill need more pressre,thus the remote oil cooler.

I moded my case to remove the groomet sealing points, wilth all of the pressure I would like to run my project at, those grommests would leak. So remote oil cooler is in the works; I traded them for -8AN fittings.

Last edited by effvee; September 29th 2013 at 23:53.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 22nd 2013, 10:13
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 545
Quote:
Although I should say that I have profound respect to his work it is clera that his bias it is something that can not be removed as he have a product to sell in that aspect.
I totally agree.He builds really good engines and doesn´t use any cheap empi crap like many others.My opinion is though that the DTM is just poorly made.The way the tins on the inside are fixed to the shroud ,it looks like a temporary fix,the pop rivets used are too long.It just doesn´t make a quality impression, unlike the rest of his products and workmanship.I personally don´t like the looks of it either,but taste is always in the eye of the beholder.All that aside though,it´s still a modified super beetle fan and will always remain inferior to a good 911 set up.The larger the bore and the more displacement an engine has, it will be more of an issue imho.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 22nd 2013, 14:15
SuperRSi's Avatar
SuperRSi SuperRSi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 518
He called me "the stupid Camaro driver" when I asked about doing a few things many years ago. I, like Jake, have few filters, so the battle began. We eventually started talking instead of slashing each others tires on a few forums. Within a couple years, Jake was using all of the "Camaro ideas" on his engines. About that time he also told some of us that were thinking about Subaru that he would "Never, Ever give up aircooled" for some Japanese ricer junk. Now you can call him and buy a Subaru for your VW. What people have to understand is that Jake is in business to make money. He builds nice engines. I would like to have one. But he will steer you to where he can make money. Hard to find good Type IV parts now days to build good engines? Well let's steer everyone to Subaru where he can build engines that have easily available quality parts and he can make money and still give a decent warranty. Problem is there are at least 10 great Suby engine builders already in place. Sure he and Charles at LN will come up with some ideas. And if the ideas are good the other 10 established builders will RipOff and Duplicate the ideas (R&D). When he was in the Type IV world there were very few other high profile competitors. Jake is a great showman and has worked these forums very well to bring those that have money to his shop. If Remmele can cool a 3.1L Type IV engine in German Autobahn conditions, I would say we should have little problems cooling using a properly engineered 911 fan here. FAT has been using their 911 fan to cool large Type IVs in hot Baja racing conditions for years. The bottom line is the standard 911 fan blows a ton of air, enough to cool a 6 cylinder where we have 4.

And for the record I have "Never, Ever" owned a Camaro. But I am building a Ricer engine for my Manx...
__________________
Meyers Manx Signature #85 , 79 Convert
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 23rd 2013, 02:47
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 545
LN Nickies are really nice. I'll lean out of the window here on this a bit.If you have a high perfomance type 4 say with 200hp with a type 1 fan set up or DTM, it just might require Nickies, at least for the speeds we drive here in Germany.They do make a huge difference.With a good 911 set up,good meaning the shroud,you can run cast iron cylinders and remain cool and reliable.Many other factors such as tuning apply to both set ups and that greatly affects temperature also, so we will just take them as a given.The DTM is much better in cooling than any other type 1 style shroud,if you can live with the looks of it.But if a 911 fan can cool a 3.6L 8000rpm 6 cylinder running the Autobahn everyday for at least 300.000km, I don't care what any other tests and R&D says,you just can't beat that imho.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 23rd 2013, 07:15
Oval Oval is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 59
Maybe the primary consideration - and limiting factor - when cooling a VW engine is the ability of the heads to shed heat... not the flow rate of the fan
__________________
aka VWCOOL
'56 Cal Oval with IRS and a 1916
'68 Country Buggy.
'76 fuel injected Cabriolet
..and a good ol' Aussie V8
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 24th 2013, 00:45
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 545
Yes, that also applies.A great part of that is how well the engine is tuned and how much heat is produced.A poorly done head or one that does not sufficient cooling fins won't last long no matter what fan you have.The cylinders heat soak the heads aswell.So yes heat shedding of the cylinders and head are important,but where should that heat go? You need to get it out of the engine bay and supply heads and cylinders with fresh cool air.The more horsepower and displacement you have, the less effective a type 1 style cooling system will be.That's all I'm trying to say.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 21:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© www.GermanLook.net 2002-2017. All Rights Reserved