big power type 4

[judgie]

Building a drag car for a customer and he wants a big power type 4 motor for it.
looking for over 450 bhp. I know wally is running that sort of power and there must be others running more than that.
Any one got any specs for these motors, what heads are they running ,cam selection etc?
Its going to be EFI and drag race only so no cooling.
I was thinking stock but balanced 2ltr crank, H beam rods with 96mm je pistons, around 7.5/1 cr with somthing like a web 86c.
Boost will be around 25psi poss more with a charge cooler.
Cheers Rob

[Steve C]

Hi

Have a look over on AussieVeedubbers, the user hypo-vw is doing some good time with big Type 4 motors.

Steve

[Turbonutta]

Judgie my dyno guy wont put more than 14psi into my type iv with stock crank and stock rods(<200bhp)...id rather get a scat counterwheight in there.

my new spec is 78mm scat,H rods, 103 je,and after having no luck with my "turbo grind" engle im going for a stock cam im hunting the over 250bhp mark

[judgie]

i think the 14psi max on stock crank and rods myth has been busted, wally is putting more than that into his.
the stock crank is very strong, balanced its good for 500bhp+ so mated with some good h beam rods it should be ok.
its the heads we are having trouble sorting, pauter make there super pro heads for a type 4, a stock head casting will do 500bhp with a lot of work.

[Turbonutta]

Really wow that was a waste of three hours dyno time for me then

..we ended up remampping my omex(as he said my rods would turn to jelly)on throttle position then over to the map sensor when we hit boost.(instead of using the map all the time).

i just fitted my new garret gt2860 ball bearing turbo and was hoping for some big hp action

HHhm my bad carry on

[judgie]

the stock typr 4 parts are very strong and will cope with a lot of power. i know of one stock crank and rods with 105 p&b running 250bhp and only 12 psi, wallys engine is 66x103 and hes running a lot more boost than 14psi with stock crank and rods.
I'm building a stock 1700 type 4 turbo motor and aim to put at least 14 psi into it.

[70Turbobug]

I would say it depends on what the customer expects from this engine,which ET is he shooting for? Good ported heads with quality valves and springs,webcam 86c is good but Pauter has better cams for drag racing imho. Pauter super pro heads, water/meth injection.I would say that 500hp is about the limit with a stock bottom end,at least I haven't heard of anyone putting more to it yet.If he wants more,you won't have to go bigger but I would get a billet crank and Pauter or Carrillo rods. At the 3rd cylinder it is adviseable to drill a hole ca.12-14mm or mill a small window to reduce pumping losses and aid in crank case ventilation.Ventiliation is important with the type 4.

Mark

[Turbonutta]

70turbo can you explain in more detail the Hole you speak of!

[70Turbobug]

It's hard to explain, I'll post a pic tomorrow.Basically looking into the cylinder spigot of cyl. 3 on the left towards the flywheel,you will see a wall.Part of this wall has nothing behind it,you can drill a hole or mill a window in it.This way the air coming from the speeding piston can escape between the wall and the back of the case.
If I were to build a drag engine without a fan I would have a large -12 fitting above each cylinder spigot to get rid of crank case pressure.Remmele has done this also for one of his 3.2 liter street t4 engines ( with Porsche fan)

Cheers
Mark

[judgie]

he's aiming for 9's in a tube frame car so we are going to need 400bhp+
i think the biggest problem is going to be clutch control, luanching with a turbo is hard enough. looking into anti lag as the ecu we want to run has this and it looks like it'll be a good way of getting boost of the line.

[70Turbobug]

I just noticed that I made a minor mistake...it´s not the 3rd cylinder it´s the 2nd...I had a hole in the 3rd cylinder after machining for the 103mm cylinders,which has been welded of course.The hole for ventilation is on the 2nd cylinder.
I´m having trouble uploading the pic,eventhough it´s less than 70kb...

[Turbo_Rich]

Hey Rob, don't come on here very often. Have you spoken to Kevo- his old rail was putting out some big power if i remember but was on Pauter heads, I also believe it had a stroker crank in it so may not be of much use if its the stock bottom end route you want to go down.
I think Russ used stock bottom end and heads to about 280-300hp would be interesting to know if going Pauter heads alone could free up some extra hp and allow more boost. In fact no- don't tell me otherwise the car will never be finished

[judgie]

kevo ran scat split heads on his rail if i remember correctly, the biggest problem he had was keeping the heads on under boost.