96mm jugs and pistons Q's

[Sandeep]

Which is the best way to go ? Stock 94mm 914 cylinders bored to fit a 96mm piston or get a complete aftermarket 96mm kit ?

I wish I could afford the 'Nickies' but not for another couple of years !

Do I need the pistons before I get the cylinders bored or is there just a standard bore ?

What about the decrease in thickness of the cylinder when 94s are bored to 96s ? Is this a problem ?

FYI, this is for my stock 2.0 GA 914 motor.

Thanks for any suggestions !

[Rouser]

The consensus is if you have OEM (German) 94mm cylinders, you can bore them to 96mm without any issues. Forget aftermarket 96mm cylinders; have heard too many horror stories (out-of-round, fitment issues, etc.).

I don't know what type of pistons you were planning on using (Keith Black? JE? Mahle?), but make sure you use quality, high-grade rings so you don't lunch a good set of cylinders. Check with Aircooled.net and see what pistons/rings are available in your size.

[kdanie]

If you are going to bore the cylinders, you need the pistons to give the machine shop so they can bore/hone the cylinders correctly. Be sure to get the honing specs for the rings you will use. Be sure your machine shop uses torque plates when boring and honing.
If you want to use new 96mm cylinders and doubt the quality of the metal you can have them cryoed to stabilize the metal. I was told that aftermarket cylinders were not round or true, I bought a set of new 94s from A&A in San Francisco (made by Chen Shang), they were round, true and square. I had them cryoed (I love the newtech stuff) just to be sure they don't warp with heat cycles.
The pistons were lighter than KBs or Mahles and very close on weight matching. I just swapped the pins around and they were all within 1 gram.
Looking back, I should have spent the extra $$ on 96s or maybe 103s......
ken

[Sandeep]

Thanks Ken,

I am considering the 103's as well for the future (78.4 x 103). I know that they won't last beyond 20K miles but for me, that works out to about 3.5 years of driving....including track time.

I am also going to look into Cryoing the cylinders (103's).

Thats what I like about the forum (any forum) and the internet, lots of opinions and advice....I take it all in and decide what makes sence to me.

Sandeep

[kdanie]

Sandeep, I think the low life expectancy of the 103s is another myth. I know they use them often in Germany and Oliver has never mentioned a short life.
Some say they cause oil cooling problems, I'm not sure what bore size has to do with oil temps.... but you could easily have them coated with the heat sheading coating on the exterior and have the piston tops ceramic coated to stop heat transfer into the oil and be fine.
So with the cryo treatment and the coating technology avialable, us normal (not rich) people can run big bores too! The Nickasil cylinders are cool but at that price I could get 3 sets of 103mm P/Cs cryoed and coated!!
Try www.OneCryo.com or call 1 800 300-2796. They are near Seattle WA. If you are a do-it-yourself kind of guy check out www.techlinecoatings.com. If not call Bruce Corento at MicroCoat in Santa Rosa CA 707 578-4010. He's a one man shop so you may need to leave a message.
ken

[Alex]

Ken,

actually Oliver did say that they have a short life...maybe not on this forum. But like you said....for someone with a smaller budget and without the big milage per year they should be fine for 20000 miles/30000km.
But then you would have to think about 5 or 6 studding, treatment of the cylinders etc. Here is my opinion on P/C sets.....if anybody cares:
The 103s are fine if you know that you will have to replace them.
The Nickies are better but I do plan on taking the engine apart at 50000km anyways.....just to check that everything is okay. With such a huge investment in a motor I do not want any surprises....even though the theory sounds pretty good and I do not want to take the enigne apart after 25000-30000km.

[Oliver Knuf]

The 96mm aftermarket cylinders from America, that I know, are all original VW cylinders, just bored and honed with very rare and nice stones, directly coming from the california beach! No, if you take such cylinders, use original old ones and get them bored and honed by a good firm!

[cnavarro]

I wish I could afford the 'Nickies' but not for another couple of years !

Well, we offer our Biral Babies which are cheaper than our Nickies, but still perform much better than cast iron cylinders and are currently available (and also in stock).

We just finished updating our website with pictures and more information if anyone is interested in them or any of our other products. (Sorry for the shameless plug!)

Also, let me know if you find anything on the site that needs further clarification or if you have any suggestions too.

Take care,

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

The 96mm aftermarket cylinders from America, that I know, are all original VW cylinders, just bored and honed with very rare and nice stones, directly coming from the california beach! No, if you take such cylinders, use original old ones and get them bored and honed by a good firm!

Well, over here the best cast iron 96mm cylinders come from rebored/honed 93mm/94mm cylinders. Whether that's a testiment to the strength original German pieces or to the atrosity of the other cast iron aftermarket ones is debatable :-).

Take care,

[Sandeep]

I'm trying to gain all of the information I can on this swap as I am planning for my winter project.

I want to bore my stock 94's to 96's and get the appropriate pistons. I also want to get a carburated webcam and get rid of the stock FI cam.

The cam is for another post, but is it simply a matter replacing the 94's with 96's ? I will be using the stock T4 rods and stock heads with no work.

I beleive this will be worthwhile because it will be an improvement over stock. I will keep the 42 x 36 stock valves as well.

The goal is to make the piston and cam swap, and enjoy the engine until the 100mm birals and LN heads are available. I hope to sell this engine complete, put in a running 1600cc and then build up a new combo using LNE parts.


So is it as simple as this or am I missing something ?

thanks

Sandeep

[kdanie]

Sandeep, I think you've got a good handle on the engine. 96mm just slip in and, "poof", you more cc and power with no clearancing. Aircooled.net sells the pistons you will need. Cams, hmmmm.... we could talk all day about that!
ken