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  #16  
Old April 14th 2008, 04:39
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petevw petevw is offline
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Tossing around these numbers on a 901/Berg5 makes a rare 923 tranny worth the asking of 1500-2000 you sometimes see around.
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  #17  
Old April 14th 2008, 06:56
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Bruce, neither price included a rebuild.

Neither price included the parts necessary to rebuild.

A 901 doesn't have to be rebuilt to convert. A Berg 5 does.

The bug@5 speed shifter and flanges aren't necessary. Stock 914 ones will work fine.

I set my backlash with machinist rouge. It took two intermediate plate gaskets.

No, I didn't fab the shift linkage as part of flipping the diff in the transmission. Happy?


Keep on beating this horse if it makes you feel good Bruce. I'm sharing my experience with using a 901. You're arguing for the sake of being yourself. If you were truly out to share your experiences with using your Berg 5, perhaps you wouldn't deliver the message like a grade school nerd with a Trapper Keeper that's cooler than everybody elses Trapper Keeper.

So, keep on. We all know you hate the thought of people modifying Volkswagen cars with Porsche parts. Go on and roll with it if it makes you feel better.
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Last edited by yetibone; April 14th 2008 at 12:26.
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  #18  
Old April 15th 2008, 11:07
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I realize a 181 is even more aerodynamically impaired than my 1302 was, but I just want to toss out this reminder: I am going to be more interested in day-to-day driving (highways, cornering, braking -- you know, the German Look attributes) than off-roading.

Since it is a Thing discussion and it won't be slammed for slamming sake, I didn't want to ignore the off-road component.

Although I am only theorizing and investigating feasibilities, I was just playing around with the idea of a low first and a second-thru-fifth being equivalent to a driveable first-thru-fourth. Whatever the outcome, I do indeed want to go down the interstate effortlessly with traffic (and by traffic, if necessary) as I did in my 1302 days.
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Last edited by oasis; April 15th 2008 at 11:08.
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  #19  
Old April 15th 2008, 19:21
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Ah, granny gear!

Yeah, some considerable changes would need to be made to either choice of transmission if you were to have a low-low first. For that, you would indeed be better with a Berg 5, since all the ratios would get changed to have a super-low first, a second gear you could start from a dead stop with, and a usable spread between each gear from second, up to fifth. By design, VW trannies have a stronger first gear.

A 914/901's magnesium intermediate plate would be a weak point offroading with a low-low first gear. The first gear's cogs are on the opposite side of the plate from the side that the other 4 gears are on. This design leaves first, and reverse gears supported by only one bearing essentially; the one in the intermediate plate. The other 4 gears are supported by the bearings in the back of the transmission case, AND the bearings in the intermediate plate. First gear is really not supported well enough to hold up to the amount of torque it could see in an off road environment, if it were a very low ratio.
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  #20  
Old April 16th 2008, 11:20
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I avoided saying granny gear because my only experience with one was on a Syncro Vanagon. That seemed too low for the mild (if any) off-roading I would be doing with a Thing.

My response was more a stream of consiousness response about a Thing not being highway worthy, which in its factory stock arrangement is pretty close to the truth. Seeing your response to my response, I see I am trying to be the master of all trades -- which is rather dumb. I now see I should choose between being a jack of all trades and being a master of one. If it becomes being the master of one, I will lean in the GL direction rather than off-road.

There is plenty of info here for me to chew through once I get a focus ... and a Thing. Thanks!
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  #21  
Old April 20th 2008, 04:04
Bruce2 Bruce2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetibone View Post
Bruce, neither price included a rebuild.

Neither price included the parts necessary to rebuild.

A 901 doesn't have to be rebuilt to convert. A Berg 5 does.

The bug@5 speed shifter and flanges aren't necessary. Stock 914 ones will work fine.

I set my backlash with machinist rouge. It took two intermediate plate gaskets.

No, I didn't fab the shift linkage as part of flipping the diff in the transmission. Happy?


Keep on beating this horse if it makes you feel good Bruce. I'm sharing my experience with using a 901. You're arguing for the sake of being yourself. If you were truly out to share your experiences with using your Berg 5, perhaps you wouldn't deliver the message like a grade school nerd with a Trapper Keeper that's cooler than everybody elses Trapper Keeper.

So, keep on. We all know you hate the thought of people modifying Volkswagen cars with Porsche parts. Go on and roll with it if it makes you feel better.
Of course you just had to take a personal attack. Couldn't keep it technical, could you?

I have no hatred for P parts. My own car rides on Fuchs, original Porsche wheel locks, Porsche rear disc brakes, and has a late 944 steering wheel. My rear shocks also originated at the Porsche factory. One day when I get around to it, the 924 stub axles I have will go into my trailing arms. Same goes for the 944 Turbo CV joints in my garage. In fact, I used to own a full set of 911 SC, and 944 parts.

I'm just throwing up an alternative to the enless advice here that you MUST use a Porsche g'box on this forum, even when it is so clearly not the ideal choice, such as in this topic's original question. In fact, I find it very humourous that you can't suggest a Berg 5 on this site without getting the full attack from everyone here. Don't believe me, do a search and try to find any thread where a B5 was suggested and not shot down.

For the original question, I would recommend a 4.37 German 8 bolt R&P, with
3.78
2.25
1.48
1.04
.82

Rebuilt IRS Type 1 ZFs can be had for $900, almost half that of a 901 ZF.

It is possible to build a Berg 5 without doing a rebuild, but as you know, it makes no sense. That is because the normal rebuild parts will set you back less than $100.

You keep quoting your experience in converting your unusually low mileage trans as if it is the norm. It is my experience that 40 year old gearboxes are rarely in fantastic condition. Here's an example of what it costs to rebuild a 901:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=423034
I can't believe anyone would want to install a 901 that would grind through the gears. Isn't the whole idea to improve the driveability?
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  #22  
Old April 20th 2008, 08:48
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yetibone yetibone is offline
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Hahaha!!

Bet you didn't read my last post.

Go ahead. Get angry.

I'm through with this discussion.
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Last edited by yetibone; April 20th 2008 at 08:57.
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  #23  
Old April 20th 2008, 22:04
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wrenchnride247 wrenchnride247 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2 View Post
Of course you just had to take a personal attack. Couldn't keep it technical, could you?

I have no hatred for P parts. My own car rides on Fuchs, original Porsche wheel locks, Porsche rear disc brakes, and has a late 944 steering wheel. My rear shocks also originated at the Porsche factory. One day when I get around to it, the 924 stub axles I have will go into my trailing arms. Same goes for the 944 Turbo CV joints in my garage. In fact, I used to own a full set of 911 SC, and 944 parts.

I'm just throwing up an alternative to the enless advice here that you MUST use a Porsche g'box on this forum, even when it is so clearly not the ideal choice, such as in this topic's original question. In fact, I find it very humourous that you can't suggest a Berg 5 on this site without getting the full attack from everyone here. Don't believe me, do a search and try to find any thread where a B5 was suggested and not shot down.

For the original question, I would recommend a 4.37 German 8 bolt R&P, with
3.78
2.25
1.48
1.04
.82

Rebuilt IRS Type 1 ZFs can be had for $900, almost half that of a 901 ZF.

It is possible to build a Berg 5 without doing a rebuild, but as you know, it makes no sense. That is because the normal rebuild parts will set you back less than $100.

You keep quoting your experience in converting your unusually low mileage trans as if it is the norm. It is my experience that 40 year old gearboxes are rarely in fantastic condition. Here's an example of what it costs to rebuild a 901:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=423034
I can't believe anyone would want to install a 901 that would grind through the gears. Isn't the whole idea to improve the driveability?
It just so happens my 915 gearbox is at Carquip right now getting rebuilt, and yes they are expensive to rebuild compared to ANY modified T1 tranny...trust me. But, it's what I wanted in my VW.
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  #24  
Old April 21st 2008, 13:05
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I'm sure this discussion seems more testy in print than it would have been in person. I appreciate all of the answers and the passion behind them. It gives me much to consider. Thanks!
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  #25  
Old April 22nd 2008, 14:52
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Eatoniashoprat Eatoniashoprat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oasis View Post
I'm sure this discussion seems more testy in print than it would have been in person.
Good call, haha. I think some people were mistaking matter-of-factness as anger.
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