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  #16  
Old November 13th 2009, 10:21
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The basic cage you describe is probably a 6 point fitting that is strong enough for internationally homologated classic rally cars. The quality of fit is down to the manufacturer/supplier. As regards head contact the roll cage is no harder than the door frame and the chances of it coming to meet your head in an accident is far less than with the plain door frame.
I have rolled a road rally car with a half cage (rear hoop and rear braces only). The cage actually saved us with no injuries save for the navigator that was nicked once with flying glass when the side window caved in. However, the windscreen and front door frame crushed back that convinced me the value of the front cage. Door bars are useful but a pain in the a**e in normal use.
Roll cage rubber is a must:- http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produc...18&tlgrp=MS005 as an example. Previous to using the FIA nominated spec we used Armorflex pipe lagging. Its generally used in refridge pipework is a min 1/2" thick, medium density and carries a fire proof (self extinguishing) certification. I'm sure you could find something similar from your air-con suppliers.

Clive
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  #17  
Old November 13th 2009, 11:22
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This is the Heigo cage I would like to install. The design with the door bars that you can remove are just what I am after. And I like it that I do not need to leave my car with some welding dude in a distant garage.

http://www.heigo.de/ASP/index.asp?IX...CAT=Volkswagen
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  #18  
Old November 13th 2009, 15:04
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For a cage in a street car there's really only 2 places to worry about, the upper door frame and main hoop behind driver and passenger. With my cage the down bars next to the upper door frame is pretty close to the driver and passenger, as is the main hoop. I have hit my head on the bar just getting in and out of the car and knocked it leanering into a corner. Padding is a must but the closer the cage gets to the body the less you have to worry about it.
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  #19  
Old November 13th 2009, 17:01
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Thanks for the responses, guys. That is plenty for me to go on for now.

The Heigo site gave me a message that started out by saying, "Session-Objekte konnten nicht gelesen werden." Then, it listed different versions of Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc. and (without yet translating it) I think it told me steps I needed to view the site. I will translate it further later when I have the time.

Thanks again.
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  #20  
Old November 13th 2009, 17:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oasis View Post
The Heigo site gave me a message that started out by saying, "Session-Objekte konnten nicht gelesen werden." Then, it listed different versions of Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc. and (without yet translating it) I think it told me steps I needed to view the site. I will translate it further later when I have the time.

Thanks again.
Actually, when I tried my own link, it did just the same...
I copied the image for you. There are more detailed pics of the cage, bit it was too much trouble to copy them all. If you really like, you can navigate through their menu and find the 'käfige' (cages) for volkswagen bug models (lot of bug models specified to my surprise!).

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  #21  
Old November 14th 2009, 03:27
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Great! That cage looks very similar to the one I had seen once upon a time.

Alright ... SQD Time (Stupid Question of the Day): Is it best -- or the only option -- to take the body off of the chassis first in order to install a roll cage?
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  #22  
Old November 14th 2009, 07:28
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Well, I don't intend to

Nah, this is a 'bolt-in' cage. The parts that it consists of can be carried through the doors. Welded-in cages can even only be installed with the body in place, like all other cars that not even have that option like 'we' do with our chassis and body as two seperate parts.
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  #23  
Old November 14th 2009, 13:58
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works for me
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  #24  
Old November 16th 2009, 08:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Well, I don't intend to

.............. like all other cars that not even have that option like 'we' do with our chassis and body as two seperate parts.
I don't think you could intall a fully welded cage in a beetle in either the body top half or the chassis without doing a lot of final welding with everything bolted together. The back struts to the rear arches would be the first immediate problem. Despite the awkward welding with a cage insitu it does allow a much tighter fit. You can see why on competition cars the cages often go into a bare shell first with everything following after.

The Heigo cage does raise a few questions about the number of pin joints its got although I can see that for ease of installation in a fitted out car there really isn't much choice.

Clive
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  #25  
Old November 16th 2009, 13:08
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The Heigo cage does raise a few questions about the number of pin joints its got ....
Clive
It does have FIA approval according to their site if the door bars are installed, for what its worth...
Personally I will go that direction.
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  #26  
Old November 17th 2009, 08:21
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It does have FIA approval according to their site if the door bars are installed, for what its worth...
Personally I will go that direction.
I don't doubt the approval and I can see how attractive it is (both in itself and for your installation). My comment was really a generality that if you can weld the joints you will have a cage that is very rigid (and strong), which can also contribute significantly to stiffness of the car.

Having said that I do appreciate that you can design a full space frame structure based on pin joints.

Clive
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  #27  
Old November 17th 2009, 09:43
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I absolutely agree that a welded cage when done properly is stronger and makes the car more stiff than a bolted-in cage.
As they say: pick your poison ;-)
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  #28  
Old December 7th 2009, 18:21
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Interesting post, just what i was looking for. I have a 71 super that i was thinking of putting a roll bar in, but i'm trying to decide if i actually need it or if its more for looks. I already have one similar to this one


the car is not going to be raced and not a daily either, mainly i'm going to thrash it on winding backroads.

If i end up using it what could i do to help reinforce it and strengthen the car as well
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  #29  
Old December 7th 2009, 19:51
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even if you are Ripping it on the TWISTIES I would put a roll bar in but you could stiffen up the car by...
kafer bar, Bilsteins shocks, bigger torsion bars, urethane bushings, convertable pan stiffeners,

hope that helps..

Chris.
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  #30  
Old December 8th 2009, 09:05
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The roll cage can provide a good deal of stiffness to the chassis and can link the body more fully to the chassis that will further stiffen things. People often forget that the body can contribute and rely solely on the cage.
If you weld tabs onto the cage at about 1/2 way up the door frame and bolt to door frame and similarly at the top of the cage where the bend occurs. Also, the same for the front legs of the cage to the door fame and A pillar.
Cross link the front legs at the base of the dash and if feasible at the top of the dash.
There should be a cross tube at about mid seat back height but that would affect the rear seat availability. If so, then put a cross tube immediately in front of the seat frame, which can be also bolted to the tranny tunnel.
Diagonal cross tubes across the car is a bit of a must to stop the cage lozenging but this again buggers the rear seat access. If making it removeable is a hassle then consider putting bracing gussets at the bends at the top of the cage and at the cross tubes. The principle here is to get stiff joints/changes in direction if its not possible to triangulate.
Door bars are well worth having but full on door bars are a real pain except in a competition only car. Here keep the bars within the side profile shape of the seat and if that means fairly low down use gussets to add a little extra.
If you can take a pair of tubes through the front bulkhead to link to the top of the Macpherson strut that will also have a strut brace (right?).
Provide some good boxed sections onto the heater channels and the plate legs down onto the floor pans.
I've mentioned gusset braces and these can be formed by bending some 16g over a pice of tube the same size as the cage and then weld to both members. Its a strong but smooth stiffener.

Clive
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