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  #91  
Old April 27th 2006, 22:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeL
I did. It helped me decide to go with a throttle body inverter rather than flipping the manifold around!

George
Thanks, I was trying to point out that for the ones that do flip your intake around I found 1 option for your aternator support, that for $12 and drilling 2 holes, looks pretty good. And if you didn't want it chrome, just scuff it and paint it black or something, but it'll help give the engine that "it belongs there" looks.

Ricola, the MS doesn't seem difficult to wire up, I just need to know where to put the wires in the Subaru plugs? I'm clueless. I thought I knew where a diagram was, but I can't find it now.
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Last edited by Mikey; April 27th 2006 at 22:32.
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  #92  
Old September 23rd 2006, 16:50
Last Triumph Last Triumph is offline
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Hello everyone.

I'm new to this forum and am currently restoring a 1964 Beetle. Having abandoned my plans to mid mount a V8, I am now looking to the Subaru conversion as an alternate route to power.

I have many questions, but my first is about cooling.

I wish to avoid a front mounted radiator at all costs, mainly due to cutting holes in the front end. Can't explain why, I just hate the look, but that's not meant to cause any offence to anyone elses conversion, far from it -you all have my admiration and respect.

My thoughts are to mount a radiator vertically where the rear bulkhead currently sits and either duct air from underneath the car, or from ducts in the rear quarter panels if neccessary. I would triangulate the rear luggage compartment to seal in the radiator, with the hot air escaping via the engine bay. Another option would be twin smaller radiators mounted in the rear quarter panels like many mid engined supercars?

Has anyone tried either of these methods yet?

Would love to hear your thoughts. I'm sure it could be made to work?
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  #93  
Old September 23rd 2006, 17:00
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Hi there,

Check out my website (in sig).
I went that route but decided to go with a front mount.

I had it to the point where the car was running, but I did not have the ducting around the rad.
The main reasons for me to move the rad was the complexity of building the shroud / ducting (I suck at metalwork), and I was really uncomfortable with that big hot radiator directly behind me.

Nevertheless, I still think it can be done from a fabrication standpoint. One important thing to remember is that the air also needs to go out. If the air behing the rad can not get out, all the intake ducts in the world will not be able to cool the motor.

Keep us posted.

Rob.

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  #94  
Old September 23rd 2006, 18:16
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deoends which subaru engie you want to use, for a NA you could probably get away with it, with a turbo you would also have to relocate the intercooler to make space and I still haven't seen anybody get a rear mounted rad to cool properly.. You don't have to put big holes up front, look at late model corvettes fro sucking air up efficiently with minimal intake size..

Rich
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  #95  
Old September 23rd 2006, 19:38
Last Triumph Last Triumph is offline
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Originally Posted by ricola View Post
deoends which subaru engie you want to use, for a NA you could probably get away with it, with a turbo you would also have to relocate the intercooler to make space and I still haven't seen anybody get a rear mounted rad to cool properly.. You don't have to put big holes up front, look at late model corvettes fro sucking air up efficiently with minimal intake size..

Rich
I used to own a '92 LT-1 Corvette so I know what you mean. I might, and it's a VERY long shot, be pursuaded into having a front mount if I could get away with an 'under valance' scoop, without ANY holes in the bonnet or valance....
I suppose it could be a few inches wider than the valance each side?

Loads of kit cars and hi po cars use rear rads - Boxters, MR2's, Fiero's, Lambo's etc, etc so it can be done.....?

For some reason, every time I see a Mk1 Toyota MR2, I see the potential for the finned air scoop they use, to be fitted into the rear quarter panel of a Beetle - one on each side, then using similar sized ally ducting, take this air back to my triangulated 'rad box' under the rear window?

Or, fit two smaller rads directly behind the scoops in the quarter panels and exhaust the air back out through the rear inner wing or bulkhead like a Lambo?

Just ideas for people to discuss?

And yes, I was hoping to use a turbo motor. Might need to 'imagineer' a space sharing system for them both without thermal transfer screwing up the intercooler's efficiency?

I see that on your Cab, you used a G50 box. I like this idea. How much shorter or longer is a G50 compared to a Type 1 tranny, and how do the ratios (speeds at say 6k rpm?) in each gear stack up?
Also, how much further forward did you move the tranny for cam cover clearance?

Does the adaptor plate system you used have a sealed bearing? RJES has put fear into me about exposed bearings and weak mounting bolts due to thin adaptor plates, versus his bus tranny bellhousing.....?

Sorry for all the questions - I should have spread them out over a few more posts.
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  #96  
Old September 23rd 2006, 22:06
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Welcome to the forum. Always glad to have another Subaru converstion.

Rear mounted radiator? Just ask Panelfantastic his opinion of a rear mounted radiator. Rob tried it too. I'm doing a front mounted radiator myself. I tried to hide it to where it's not as noticeable. The saying "Form Follows Function" applies here. Would you rather have a cool engine or the radiator in the back? You can put a radiator up front and make it tasteful. What kind of use do you want with the car? Daily driver, weekend warrior...? It would be rough to daily drive it with a radiator behind you, cuts down on space a bunch. If you mount it up front you can still have a rear seat.

You also brought up cars with rear mounted radiators. The fiero, from what I've heard, would have been better with a front mounted radiator. Still, the other cars with rear mounted radiators were designed and built for a rear mounted radiator. Our cars were not designed for a rear mounted radiator. It's not by any means impossible. Don't get me wrong, but it would be better to go with a proven set up, over something that has been tried before and didn't fly.

In my opinion you'll have to ditch the stock intercooler. You'd be better off with a air-air intercooler. Unless you want to cut up your package tray.

Adapter plate system? Mine is just a plate with a specially made flywheel. There are not any bearings. And I wouldn't worry about KEP products.

Don't worry about all the questions. That's why this thread is here. You might want to read through it if you havn't already. A lot of post, but a lot of good info too.
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  #97  
Old September 23rd 2006, 23:27
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There has been many posts here and on other forums about the use of rear radiators. I think panelfantastic is the only one I know of that actually made it work and I am not sure his is working as well as he wants it to. It seems to me that the duct work to the radiator would not be too difficult but exhausting all that hot air is more difficult. Extra louvers in the decklid and maybe even in the rear apron would help. Although with this you run the risk of sucking up some exhaust gas back into the engine bay and into the motor since there is not much airflow down there. Some good size fans on a large radiator with some of that stuff that lowers the temperature of the coolant couldn't hurt. Just some food for horsepower.

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  #98  
Old September 24th 2006, 06:39
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MR2s and boxsters have front mounted radiators, their side intakes are to help keep air flowing over the engine for additional cooling. The Lambo was designed for a rear mount from the start so the whole shape of the car is aerodynamically optimised for it..

Unfortunately I had to sell the G50 when the chance to buy another car came up, mine was a late one so pretty long, best ones to use are the early ones as they are much shorter, you would still have to cut through the torsion housing tho' I ended up using the 1303s box as I really don't abuse my cars, plus I could move it forwards about 50mm by reversing the rear cradle and that gets the cam covers under the stock body.

Rich
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  #99  
Old September 24th 2006, 08:44
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Sorry to hear that you sold the G50. I'd go with a Type 1 box, but the cost of buying a strong one is at least £1500 (G50 money), and I'm still stuck with a 4 speed.... Which would get the engine furthest forward, a short early G50 box or a type one with reversed mount?

I trust the inner wings need to be cut to clear the heads, and engine side trays removed?
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  #100  
Old September 24th 2006, 16:09
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Also, has anyone ever run the coolant tubes through the heater channels?

You could either run the tubes up the inside of the door pillars like the de-mister tubes and then forwards to a front mount rad, or run the tubes all the way to the front of the channels and out of the front bulkhead and along the frame head to the rad?

Any thoughts?
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  #101  
Old September 25th 2006, 00:21
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As I am eventually planning on a custom tube-frame chassis , I was planning on running my heater tubes through the frame tunnel . I am still unsure what type of tubes to use , either copper or aluminum . I was planning on doing some more research before hand . Also , with a custom frame , I am able to open up my choices of transmissions . I have been e-mailing back and forth with a custom frame builder , who specializes in VW frames for stuff like Manx buggies and such . Its going to cost about $1500 US . I am hoping this will solve alot of the apperant problems I might encounter .
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  #102  
Old September 25th 2006, 04:40
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Originally Posted by Last Triumph View Post
Sorry to hear that you sold the G50. I'd go with a Type 1 box, but the cost of buying a strong one is at least £1500 (G50 money), and I'm still stuck with a 4 speed.... Which would get the engine furthest forward, a short early G50 box or a type one with reversed mount?

I trust the inner wings need to be cut to clear the heads, and engine side trays removed?
IT is easy to compare just the cost of the trans, but you are also pretty much on your own for flywheel, clutch etc etc not to mention turning the chassis into a BIG project. For a road car I'm hoping the AT will last a while, especialyl as a second car. Having said that I was offered a low mileage early G50 with LSD for £1500 which did tempt me!

Yup, inner wings need cutting/widening and the trays are long gone!

Rich
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  #103  
Old September 25th 2006, 10:04
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Just to chime in on rear mounted rads.
The problem is getting airflow. The factory cars had the advantage of a windtunnel and engineers to calculate flow. You CANNOT guess that a few ducts will be plenty. You CANNOT double the volume of coolant to overcome poor airflow, doesn't help at all.
Mine now works like a charm. What worked for me? Stripping back down to a more basic system in the rear AND adding a small FRONT mounted rad. I waaayyy over engineered the rear trying to compensate for lack of airflow, all sound ideas, agreed upon by others as the thing to do, got worse with every thing I tried... until I added the Boxster rad up front.



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  #104  
Old September 25th 2006, 10:32
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Since we're on the topic of Rads (not trying to hiJack this thread), has any of you tried either a water mist system or even NOS for additional cooling ?

Basically you spay water / NOS on the front of the rad, which helps A LOT with cooling. Obviously not something you want to do all the time, but could be something for trackdays etc.

I think it's mostly used for intercoolers but I was wondering if it would also work on a regular rad.

Rob.
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  #105  
Old September 25th 2006, 15:57
Last Triumph Last Triumph is offline
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IT is easy to compare just the cost of the trans, but you are also pretty much on your own for flywheel, clutch etc etc not to mention turning the chassis into a BIG project. For a road car I'm hoping the AT will last a while, especialyl as a second car. Having said that I was offered a low mileage early G50 with LSD for £1500 which did tempt me!

Yup, inner wings need cutting/widening and the trays are long gone!

Rich
All good and true, BUT, the guy with the orange Scooby bug in Volksworld is now on his 3rd type one trans. I guess he abuses it? I wouldn't abuse mine, but it would be nice to know that you're not going to leave a pile of bits on the road if you occaisionally want to smoke 'em up or shift in anger?

Does anyone sell mega tough type one boxes with the stongest and best of everything (Mendeola are too exoensive, but nice idea...)

Plus there is still the 4 speed problem?

Surely someone has mated G50 to a scooby before now and know what to do clutch and flywheel wise?

It would seem a front rad really is the way to go then? I ain't cutting holes though.... No sireee!
I see a big catfish, under valance, C4 'vette style scoop in my future?

Coolant tubes in the heater channels?

If a type one was used with a reversed mount, would that allow DOHC covers to clear the bodywork?

Again, sorry for all the questions.
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