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  #1  
Old July 24th 2009, 07:16
STIDUB STIDUB is offline
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hydraulic clutch!!!!!

hi guys, for the life of me i cant find pics of anyone with a superbeetle pan that has pedals in standard location (with master cylinder/s going through the pan to under the fuel tank area) & im REALLY interested to know if anyone has achieved this in the limited space available, the only way i can work it out is if the inner & outer skin where the brake MC sits is cut out 7 modified so that you could sit the clutch MC right against the tunnel & have the brake MC moved over more, closer to the outside of the pan (RHD of course) then running the lines from the brake MC through the pan, would need 2x 15-20mm holes to suit the MC location, im tempted to try it, the standard pedals would need the pushrod position adjusted to suit obviously but im yet to see any reason why it wouldnt work other than needing to re-route the fuel line to the exit the other side, any thoughts/pics of various setups would be awesome, other alternative would be cut a panel from the bottom plate of the tunnel & mount a pushrod/MC inside the tunnel where the hook sits but im not keen on that idea, ive been staring at my floorpan with a kombi MC & my tie rods etc mounted onto it for the last hour or so & they are the only things i can think of....
Input would be REALLY appreciated, thanks again
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1971 Superbeetle, stripping the old stuff, getting ready for paint, then bolting on all my goodies, sorting problems by ones self is a challenge it seems, any GL beetle people in Brisbane say hi!
Its been 3yrs since i drove my dub
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Old July 24th 2009, 11:02
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Hi

Have a look at Mick058 buildup on AVD, they did something similar to what I want to do.

Steve



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Old July 24th 2009, 21:34
STIDUB STIDUB is offline
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hi steve, yeah i checked his car out at westi's when i was in sydney a few months ago, didnt get my head under the pedal side of the car though, the wheel was still on on that side, the standard fronts have different layout to supers as far as free space goes but yeah his setup is about the only one i can find decent pics of, i think i may have to experiment with my spare pan to see if everything could be squeezed in how i think it could work, ill study the thread once more though, cheers
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1971 Superbeetle, stripping the old stuff, getting ready for paint, then bolting on all my goodies, sorting problems by ones self is a challenge it seems, any GL beetle people in Brisbane say hi!
Its been 3yrs since i drove my dub
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Old July 25th 2009, 01:58
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Hi

I'm going to do something similar with my car, but the pushrod will be mounted much lower on the pedal and with a super you have lots of room once you go past the brake MC, you will just need a long pushrod.

Or you could have the pushrod going through the pan at a steep angle and mount the clutch MC on an angle above the clutch MC.

I don't live very far from Westis shop, so I pop in a lot see what they are up to and get them to do the odd bit of fab work for me.

Steve
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Old July 25th 2009, 07:20
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have a look at this, might save you all the grief of modding your super

http://www.vwispwest.com/product.php...cat=416&page=1

Cheers
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  #6  
Old August 3rd 2009, 02:38
STIDUB STIDUB is offline
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still no luck finding suitable setup on a superbeetle pan... has anyone used the smallcar bellhousing on anything? im curious for feedback on quality of it, im getting to the point where i have to buy either the RJES or smallcar one & id prefer hydraulic clutch if i can do it... a local vw shop likes my idea but it all comes down to sourcing a suitable master cylinder, ill post a link to this on aussieveedubbers aswell in the hope a local sees it...
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1971 Superbeetle, stripping the old stuff, getting ready for paint, then bolting on all my goodies, sorting problems by ones self is a challenge it seems, any GL beetle people in Brisbane say hi!
Its been 3yrs since i drove my dub
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  #7  
Old August 3rd 2009, 05:36
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I think this is the way to go - it ticks all my boxes:
http://www.apracing.com/info/index.a...Pull+Type_2342
I show this for the principle rather than as a purchase item as it is rather too expensive. I'm sure that with some fabrication this could be easily made. The advantages as I see it are:
1) All the cylinders are in the car out of the crud.
2) Pull cylinders have a reputation of being smoother.
3) Twin brake cylinders offer great bias adjustment
4) Raising the floor by 50mm gives a much more comfortable pedal action (mine has it and I can't recommend it more highly), unless of course you have clown sized feet!
5) Maintenance is a doddle.
Yesterday I STRUGGLED with putting new flexible pipes on the dual m/c connections on a 1303 super and I really can't see how putting the the clutch m/c there as well do nothing but make matters worse. Siting the clutch m/c next to the brake m/c will also mean that a pipe from the resevoir will have to wind its way from under the tank up into the front luggage compartment - this needs the application of the KISS principle.

Clive
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Old August 3rd 2009, 10:14
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Hi

The setup that Flintstones suggested is good but I'm not sue about having the MC in the tunnel.

I agree that dual cylinders are very good idea, I'm not sure about where STIDUB lives in the our wide brown land but adjustable bias MCs are not allowed on a street car in the state where I live. Have a crash, insurance company pays an engineer to inspect your car if he finds anything illegal no insurance policy.

I was going to T my fluid supply off one of the brake MC feed lines or just have reservoir on top of the clutch MC.

I agree fitting the brake lines can be a pain, but its not like they're spark plugs or similar that need changing often, keep the fluid clean and they should last 10 or more years.

On my bug and STIDUBs car I assume access could be gained through the radiator area, formally the spare wheel area, this would make things much easier.

Steve

I saw this setup somewhere and thought it looked interesting.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Master cyl.1.jpg (50.4 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg Master cyl.2.jpg (48.5 KB, 106 views)
File Type: jpg Master cyl.jpg (46.7 KB, 93 views)
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  #9  
Old August 3rd 2009, 12:07
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Hi Steve,

I am surprised that dual m/cs are not allowed where you live, I can't think of any logical reason for banning them?? However, we all have strange construction and use regulations that are more often borne out of primitive technological theory/practice that is no longer applicable. (I wonder how you get on with foreign rally cars for example that will all inevitably have balance bar brakes and are used on the public highway between stages?and other temporary visiting vehicles)

I don't like the idea of fluid resevoirs low down in the position shown in the photos. Apart from a serious access problem filling/inspecting the fluid the whole resevoir/master cylinder is in a vulnerable area from road debris etc as the amount of crap that was sitting on the fillet plate of our 1303 super will testify to. Also, it is highly vulnerable from water ingestion on those rare occasions that we attempt through water splashes, fords and torrential down pours that we now have to suffer.

If the clutch and brake master cylinders are sited next to each other on the outside of the napoleans hat bulkhead then it would be wise IMO to site separate resevoirs on the bulkhead under the 'screen in full view under the bonnet so that they are easily monitored, filled and changed.

Clive
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Old August 3rd 2009, 19:00
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Hi Clive

The nannas at the RTA (Road Transport Authority) are worried that you might adjust your brakes while driving on the road and have a horrible crash.

We just had new rules introduced by the RTA which banned cars being lowered or raised more than 50mm, there has been a temporary stay put on these rules after a huge outcry form the aftermarket parts industry.

But when we lower a car it must still have a minimum headlight height 600mm.

Foreign rally cars would still have to be registered in their country of origin I guess.

The setup that I posted pictures of could be improved with a remote reservoir.

Steve
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  #11  
Old August 3rd 2009, 22:09
STIDUB STIDUB is offline
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hi steve, yes thats the style of mounting im looking for! too late though & personally id rather the pan/body would be easily swapped, hence the reason for not wanting to mount the clutch mc through the body shell, kinda like this...

now i realise that a remote resi would be better but i doubt access will be all that difficult for me since the wheel well is non existant, besides how often do you change fluid? i may look into a remote one later, just bought this for sizing really

for those that feel like a look heres the rest of the pics im sharing http://s975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/STIDUB/
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1971 Superbeetle, stripping the old stuff, getting ready for paint, then bolting on all my goodies, sorting problems by ones self is a challenge it seems, any GL beetle people in Brisbane say hi!
Its been 3yrs since i drove my dub
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  #12  
Old August 4th 2009, 05:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STIDUB View Post
.....................[/IMG]
now i realise that a remote resi would be better but i doubt access will be all that difficult for me since the wheel well is non existant, besides how often do you change fluid? ..............
Once the body's in place I found access to be very limited with steering, damper, dual m/c and pipes all in the way - access being through the wheel arch only. I can't see how removing the spare wheel well will improve it with the steering rods and damper between the well and the m/c.
When I changed the little flexis on the resevoir pipes I found I could only get one hand and the tips of the other fingers in to do it so checking and filling a clutch m/c wil require bottles, tubes and mirrors and I would be paranoid about dirt entering the resevoir.
BTW I change my brake fluid every 24 months to maintain optimum braking. The difference with new fluid in is always noticeable (whether that is down to new fluid or the bleeding is debatable) and the ease of doing it with a simple pressure bleeder and the relative cheapness of brake fluid makes it a no brainer to being part of the normal maintenance schedule. In many ways it is quicker, simpler and cleaner than changing the engine oil. Besides, whats good enough for Ferraris and Porsches is good enough for me!

Clive
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  #13  
Old August 4th 2009, 09:21
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Hi

I bought a vacuum bleeder, it works really well, before that I used to use a broom handle, pump the pedal up by hand and keep pressure on with the broom handle and reach across and release the nipple, I was good at twister when I was kid.

Steve
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Old August 4th 2009, 10:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
Hi

I bought a vacuum bleeder, it works really well, before that I used to use a broom handle, pump the pedal up by hand and keep pressure on with the broom handle and reach across and release the nipple, I was good at twister when I was kid.

Steve
Wish I had bought a vacuum bleeder as I had a real problem with air locks in the reservoir and leaks on the reservoir to m/c pipes - hence new flexis and fiddling around the m/c last w/e. On 'normal' cars the pressure bleeder works well and also give a useful extra capacity to the reservoir whilst bleeding.

Clive
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  #15  
Old August 12th 2009, 22:02
STIDUB STIDUB is offline
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http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/v....php?tid=78380

Bumping, anyone?? ^ link to my local forum, hoping across 3 forums i can find more info....
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1971 Superbeetle, stripping the old stuff, getting ready for paint, then bolting on all my goodies, sorting problems by ones self is a challenge it seems, any GL beetle people in Brisbane say hi!
Its been 3yrs since i drove my dub
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