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  #31  
Old January 26th 2007, 17:33
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Location: Merida, Mexico
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Vujade: I agree with you, an did noted that before, but since veedub is goind to build the big engine relatively soon I didn't mention it
Oasis: Well thanks, BTW my German and French knowledge is very close to nothing, mostly lyrics from Rammstein and Enigma
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #33  
Old January 28th 2007, 12:03
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Well those are good if youre biulding an engine form scrap, but since you already have the case, you will be spending unnecesarily. Plus, being a racing kit, i keep my doubts about reliability
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #34  
Old January 29th 2007, 01:44
Veedub Veedub is offline
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yeah good point, I think its just a longblock anyways and for only racing too.

I think I basically got my plans (ahead of time so I know what I want to do in advance) I want to build a 1776cc thats reliable but still able to play, you know Heres what I found so far, that I will save up for.You can add any recomendations if you like
Anyways...
Scat Pro Street Forged 1.25:1 rockers- 157.45 (to cheap?)
Engle W110 cam with a .430" lift and .284" duration- 64.95
Billet Steel Straight Cut cam- 73.45
Super Big Bore Kit 90.5mm p&c's forged- 199.95
4140 Forged Chromoly 69mm crank- 179.95
Pertronix Distributor Ignitor II w/ non vac- 169.95
Flamethrower II Coil - 37.95
Pertronix 8.0mm plug wires- 29.95

Im not sure what carbs, exhaust, or heads Id want to use though, any ideas?
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  #35  
Old January 29th 2007, 03:29
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Well i think you have there a very nice setup. Overengineered, for added reliability. About the carbs, i have read several times that the best option are dual weber idf, perhaps with that setup you should go with 40's or at mos 44's. Dells and Kads are another option, and cheaper too. The exhaust will depend on the heads, I'd stay with 044s, ported and polished with big valves, say, 40 x 35.5. This would work with a 1 1/2 header. Just remember to get a header with a long collector (4'') and a decent sounding muffler.

Oh and by the way now i can't decide between the 2007 and the 1776 for my bug...
PS: have you upgraded the brakes already?
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #36  
Old January 29th 2007, 03:36
Veedub Veedub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
Well i think you have there a very nice setup. Overengineered, for added reliability. About the carbs, i have read several times that the best option are dual weber idf, perhaps with that setup you should go with 40's or at mos 44's. Dells and Kads are another option, and cheaper too. The exhaust will depend on the heads, I'd stay with 044s, ported and polished with big valves, say, 40 x 35.5. This would work with a 1 1/2 header. Just remember to get a header with a long collector (4'') and a decent sounding muffler.

Oh and by the way now i can't decide between the 2007 and the 1776 for my bug...
PS: have you upgraded the brakes already?
lol you cant decide between a 1776 or a 2007 now? thats funny.And no I havent got my brakes yet, when incomtax comes im going to buy everything for my bug that i need to get it up and running on the road then start on the motor as a side project.the brakes I am going to buy just a front disc brake kit w/ drop spindles.

About the heads i was thinking of maybe the Level 5's in aircooled.net, what you think?Would that be ok with the setup i want?Also i was thinking the same as you with the carbs but i wasnt sure.


p.s. to get my bug up and roadworthy, i just need to buy the window pieces i need, found a local shop that selld them, undercoating for floor along with sound deadener, and put my interior in an then put my stock motor in, and buy a rebuild kit fpr my stock carb.by the way, i decided on my wheels, go to the other thread and tell me what you think, i was told it was French look, whatever that is

Last edited by Veedub; January 29th 2007 at 03:40.
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  #37  
Old January 29th 2007, 17:19
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Location: Merida, Mexico
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Well, yes and i can't decide mainly for budget issues. I have a fixed budget for this bug, about 6k, and i also have to pay a lot for shipping to Mexico.
Id say those heads are good, theyre the hi-po street version
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #38  
Old January 29th 2007, 17:23
Veedub Veedub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
Well, yes and i can't decide mainly for budget issues. I have a fixed budget for this bug, about 6k, and i also have to pay a lot for shipping to Mexico.
Id say those heads are good, theyre the hi-po street version
Oh yeah the cost of shipping to Mexico has to be a pita man.You guys dont got local shops there?Here in Florida I have only found 2 shops but there close by and not far from me.
Would those heads hurt the reliability at all, if you know?

Just so you know, the combo of stuff I listed above, was about 960.00, I totaled it up last night so I might be off a little on the total of th price, maybe you can use that combo to but with a bigger crank?
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  #39  
Old January 29th 2007, 21:38
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Astromic Astromic is offline
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well, i've read on many forums and articles that 1776 is the best non-stocker(and non-stroker) combo, and the 2007 is the best "stroker" combo, both for reliability more than power but ofcourse give a pleasent power compared to stock engine.
i'm now on building a 1776, and if i was in a country like usa or germany i would have picked the 2007, because there's no machine shop i know here will do the clearencing/matching job right, and my second reason is the mpg.
for the cases i know that AE-AD-AS is a good choices for any project, i perefere later AS because of the better alloy, just make sure they are standard cut.
my engine specs is still on papers and my head only, and i might take a long time planning, i just hope it will worth it

this is the main specs so far:
Case: used type1 AS-21
Bore X Sroke: 90.5mmX69mm, 1776cc
Pistons: Mahle 90.5(thick walls), with total seal and teflon locks
Crankshaft: 69mm Forged & C/W
Heads: Stock DP 35X32, single HD springs, or CB 044 40x35 (money talks)
Rockers: HD 1:1.1, & swivle foot adjusters
C/R: 7.7:1 to 8.2:1
Intake: FI MegaSquirt-II V3, controling 4 injectors
Ignition: EDIS driven by MS
Cam: Engle W-110 or Scat C-35, light lifters, berg chromoly push-rods
Rods: Stock
Exhaust: 1.5" merged with single quite pack
Cooling: Stock doghouse shroud w/ stock thermostat, & full-flow external oil cooler controled by MS
Other: lightened flywheel, full flow filter, maybe deep sump

this setup is supposed to rev smoothly till ~5500 with stock heads and +6k with CB heads, well i guess

the efi is more reliable than the carbs thru all the rev range, and ofcourse more effecient, maybe megasquirt is a pita to tune and install, but you'll get what worth your effort.
the c/w crank is a must for a high-rev engine for sure, and you will need it forget(not cast) when 1776 or higher, and friction also will be a problem on high revs, and the bad oil will get the engine to a fast end, then you'll need a good full-flow filter to reduce the friction effects happens due to small particles.
for the cams, we have to put in mind that our bugs can't be fitted with a vtec , that's why the cam should be selected due to your driving condition, other parameters will affects this but the cam is the most, then the carb(or TB) size.
type4 is ofcourse the best choice in all cases(street or track), but i always think of it as a very expensive choice becuase you will not just get a type4 engine and bolt it in, you need a nice larg list for this convesion, and also type4 parts is very expensive compared to type1.
turbo is also a good idea specially when added to a reliable setups like 1776 or 2007, but the cons of the turbo is that you will suffer on high speeds, and if you pick a large turbo to fix this, you will suffer from it's lag , again it's a matter of how you will drive your car.
for you main question, you'll have to use magic spells to tell exactly how much power your setup will give loool , you will get only estimations or a "range" close enough to the main power. for a "tepical" well built 1776 you may get a 120hp from it, most common project with a 044 heads, w110 cam, dual 40mm idf and merged 1.5" header, will give 90-100hp and maybe 110hp.
also a cooler engine is a longer life one, but it don't make any sense when cooling the oil, and forget about the heads. we know that heads gets really hot faster that oil inside the engine. cb heads is known to be stronger and it's fins is well designed to transfer heat faster than stock heads, stock style thermostat is also a perfect choice here, you should also use electronic ignition wich will give you stable timing. go efi and your engine will never be happier.
i have another option wich will sound a bit weird, did you think of converting your engine to a subaru or a wbx or even a golf mk engine???? it will cost a lot cheaper and ofcourse more reliable and drivable power.

i hope i helped a little, and good luck in your project...

Michael

Last edited by Astromic; January 29th 2007 at 21:50. Reason: correcting
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  #40  
Old January 29th 2007, 21:59
Veedub Veedub is offline
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Thanks Mike I did think of the subaru motors but I thought they would be more expensive and also I dont really want to cut on my bug. I have my mind set on a 1776cc, the site aircooled.net says you can get up to 150hp with there heads but I dont know what setup would be needed for that.My driving..um Im a rabit at take off but I drive normal, that make sense?
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  #41  
Old January 30th 2007, 00:54
Veedub Veedub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedub View Post
Scat Pro Street Forged 1.25:1 rockers- 157.45 (to cheap?)
Engle W110 cam with a .430" lift and .284" duration- 64.95
Billet Steel Straight Cut cam- 73.45
Super Big Bore Kit 90.5mm p&c's forged- 199.95
4140 Forged Chromoly 69mm crank- 179.95
Pertronix Distributor Ignitor II w/ non vac- 169.95
Flamethrower II Coil - 37.95
Pertronix 8.0mm plug wires- 29.95
I did a little more searching (remember project will be a later side project, but like I said, dont hurt to prepare now than not know what I want later on)
well anyways I did a little more searching and found this stuff for a 1776cc or a 2007cc if you desire.Maybe this will help you also Evilangel.
instead of a Engle W110 use a 86A( aircooled.net calls it a Mild Ratio Grind cam) - 94.95
Aircooled.nets, L5 Road Warrior Heads- 750.00 plus a Venturi cut valve job- 50.00 plus Match port intakes (if you buy intakes from them) -50.00
Lowbuggets 1.4:1 forged rockers (need a 1.4 or 1.5:1 rocker with the cam posted above)- 129.99
Lowbugget has malhe forged 90.5 pistons and cylinders- 180.00
Bosch Rev limiting rotors 5800rpms- 24.99
Jbugs Dual 40IDF carb kit (maybe cheaper from somewhere else?)- 829.95

What you think this would do to the reliability issues, anything bad?

a total of 2628.08 of course thats not counting shipping, and hopefully you get more than 100hp

Last edited by Veedub; January 30th 2007 at 00:58.
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  #42  
Old January 30th 2007, 07:01
beetle1303 beetle1303 is offline
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IMO there is no need to get the c/w crank for a 1776 except if u plan on putting a turbo on it on a latter stage... Just balance the stock crank,rods and lightened flywheel and u will be fine (done this and came up to 6.5k rpm, with useful rpm up to 6k).

For carbs i use dual 40 webers, with velocity stalks and tall air filters. Carbs was a nightmare to jet after syncronizing them. Result is two jet settings. one foe winter one for summer...

For exhaust im using half of the collector from a Kadron system (like a single quiet pack/not so quiet ), custom made j tubes, as the rest of the collector and a 60mm group A style muffler.

Seriously, ditch the stock fuel pump, specially if u are on a hot area... it gets hot, wont suck enough fuel, lean mixture, preignition and bang there is a hole... I got a Weber carb pump fitted in the front compartment below the spare wheel (1303) so its a gravity fed one. U can run an extra oil breather line from a blocking plate on the stock fuel pump's hole...


Along with the petronix ignitor and wires get a 009 Bosch dizzy. IF u dont have a breathing system, there is a possibility, that oil will blow through the dizzy's o ring. it looks like the oil cooler has burst...(been there...)

Last but not least, get bolt on rocker shafts. I had a washer snaped and the noise is aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhghggh... i dont want to remember... Lucky though the was no damage, so i changed to bolt ons straight way


Chris
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  #43  
Old January 30th 2007, 09:10
Veedub Veedub is offline
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Thanks chris, yeah I agree bout there no need for a c/w crank but I was getting a forged one just in case.The stock fuel pump will be ditched, anyone in particular I should get?And about the dizzy Im going to get the Pertronics Ignitor II non vac, its a dizzy, and coil, and wires.And for carbs I was thinking 40IDF's but not with velocity stacks, I'd think it would be easy to suck in water that way.
Lightened Flywheel you would recomend, would I need a bigger fuel sump, maybe?
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  #44  
Old January 30th 2007, 12:11
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Astromic Astromic is offline
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ok, i think reliability also could be improved by fine-selecting your cam, i read before that you must choose a high duration cam not a high lift one(relatively), because high lift cams put more stress into the valvetrain wich will decrease the overall life of the engine, for example scat c-35 has .410" Lift & 286 Degree Duration, Engle w-110 has .430"Lift & 284 Degrees Duration, they both have close duration, but engle has a higher lift, that means is make more strees on the valvtrain. also the lope shape decides that, sharp lopes is faster to push, so it is also not good for the engine...
i'm not sure about informations about valvetrain stress, as i only read it but not experienced it yet in the real world, so if any one knows better please correct me...

beetle1303,
do u know any site talking about balancing the crank? i only have sites contains articles about balancing the rods and the pistons, but don't have any talking about the crank, i want somthing good as i'm doing the job my own, thank's in advance...<<veedub, sorry for hijacking your post >>

Michael
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  #45  
Old January 30th 2007, 22:51
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Thanks for the info veedub. I think that cam will give a better reliability, for what i've read it lessens the stress on the valvetrain, exactly as Michael says. As a matter of fact i've read just yesterday htat it is indeed a very important factor of reliability on strokers. I agree with the lightened flywheel. I think that if you can afford the crank, go for it. It does no bad, and it certanily can stand more abuse than a stock c/w. As for the sump, there's been a lot of discussion on this topic, and it doesn't really keep the engine cooler, it just make it take longer to warm up. However, it can prevent oil starvation under some circumstances

Michael: I agree 100% with you, EFI is the way to go, but it's extremely expensive, specially since i've seen new webers 44 idf at about 700 on thesamba. As for cooling, i plan on 043's as cb's "regular" 044's don't seem ported, they just seem to have big valves, and their ported versions are a bit expensive for my budget. Also, i've read steve tims' heads are very well done, and they're affordable. And about cooling, i plan on keeping my stock shroud and thermostat, and install a temp sensor on cylinder #3 (this is the hottest) if i see temp's too high i will have to save for a DTM shroud. And my car came stock with electronic ignition
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake

Last edited by EvilAngel; January 30th 2007 at 22:57.
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