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  #46  
Old July 15th 2004, 01:22
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Ok Mysticle, reading your posts I have come to a conclusion. Get a 2270 from jake Raby that utilizes LNEngineering's nickies.
It's gonna cost a pretty penny (7-10k??)
My mentality towards Jake's engines are that they are so professionally built that in the long run, compared to using anything else, they will pay for themselves.
From what i gather:
150-165 hp with this engine combo, maybe more.
excellent gas mileage
no guesswork
way less maintenance
ton of torque
car is gonna haul ***
engine lasts forever
great technical support
etc., etc.
Might as well get a tranny from him as well.
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  #47  
Old July 15th 2004, 04:37
Mysticle31 Mysticle31 is offline
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I would just love to save up and have jake build an engine for me. I've came to that conclustion. Hopefully a powercurve similer to that 2316. Although not so high numbers. I don't like the up and downs in the 2270C. and the 2270C is 148HP in the dyno on his site. Which is plunty. Not building a race car here, just geting a feel for my best options.

Now I want to look for a nice cheap get up and go engine for the 'in between' times. Or I'll just stuff the car in the gerage. Do the paint and interior while saving new wireing fueltank, weatherstriping, seals..etc. Then stuff the engine in and tranny and just have a ball
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  #48  
Old July 16th 2004, 18:22
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Massive Type IV Massive Type IV is offline
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The 2270 C is the most efficient engine I build. That is just ONE curve that has been there for over two years.

Keep in mind I have over 60 proven combos for the 2270C!

The 2270 "Roller" engine will make reliable power similar to a 2316 with the same tuning as a standard 2270.

The first roller cam is being designed now, and the engine is just waiting on the cam.
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  #49  
Old July 18th 2004, 05:41
Mysticle31 Mysticle31 is offline
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Well unless I go with a corvair engine..lol. I'm saving up for your type 4. Just have to figure out if I should build a beat/blow up a cheapie type 1 first.

How high does 3rd on some of these VW's go? I was riding in my friends BMW 325is and he went to pass a tuck on the freeway, and (can't drop it into third without hiting rev limiter) and droped it in 4th. If I was in my jetta. I can take 3rd up to 101 (gear chart), drop it into third and pass just about anything quickly (on the track GSR's, Newer vr6 jettas, Mustang GT's, could never catch it. Never had any vets, nsx, bikes..) I like having really nice gearing. I don't know how 4 speeds do it. Drop it into 3rd, 2nd? Power/torque acessable for quick quick acceleration from 0-100mph (ha ha just a nice point to stop) and 13.8 in the quarter. Gutted car. I'd love to make a slightly faster, better accelerating car then the jetta. At least match it.
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  #50  
Old July 19th 2004, 16:27
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My 914 with stock gearing will turn 110 in 3rd gear at 7700 RPM.. Thats with 181 BHP and a rev range to 8,300 RPM.. It idles stock and doesn't sound built till you tap the throttle.
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  #51  
Old July 19th 2004, 17:03
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"Tap the throttle" LOL.... When do you ever "Tap the throttle" in that thing.
That 2316 is the sickest sounding, quickest reving air-cooled engine I have ever heard. It does have a nice smooth idle that will fool you into thinking it is tame. But I can say first hand that it is VERY ill tempered and sounds like it belongs on the Road Atlanta track when you open the taps.
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  #52  
Old July 19th 2004, 23:50
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And next it gets Nickies and a Roller cam set up- Thats automatically a boost to over 200 ponies with no other changes made to the engine..
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  #53  
Old July 20th 2004, 02:07
Mysticle31 Mysticle31 is offline
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These revver engines are $$. I'd like to have a good ole cast iron 2270 that could do it. I like the WIDE torque. But I also like the advantage of being able to sit in lower gears for longer then the other guy giving me the multiplication.


Jake, You've kinda been following along. What to do you sugest? (Dont' need anything WOOW! just 150, 160HP. 180 Max, or should I say. Max 10:1 HP per pound in a full mullholland 1302 superbeetle with 944 stuff.


I'm conserned that stock 1st gear in these VW's is going to be too short and useless.. (that's what jake uses in his trannys)?
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  #54  
Old July 20th 2004, 03:01
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The engine in my 914 is a standard 2316 Annihilator.. It makes 152 lb/ft of torque at just 2,000 RPM. Thats good enough to roast the tires any time.. This engine was the first of its kind and so far has been the weakest one I have built.

First is not rendered totally useless, its good for bad *** burnouts! I have an option of an aftermarket mainshaft, but it adds 600.00 to the cost of the tranny. Then we can run whatevcer gears deemed necessary by the dyno plots.

You tell me where you want the power and I combine the math with knowledge and past engines performance and make it exactly as you desire- thats the beauty of non standard combinations- and what you are paying me for..

Its all in the combo!

I'd say you need a 9.5:1 2316 with one broad *** power range and a flat torque curve- nuttin to it, just open the old wallet and slide the engine in!
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  #55  
Old July 20th 2004, 14:24
Mysticle31 Mysticle31 is offline
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I'm not to interested in 'put the engine in your wallet' although I do recognice that you need to pay for the good stuff..

So what's the best way to make power good and get optimal use of the gearing? Mabey a slighly taller third. I'm not as much interested in the amount of power I have, as much as I want the ability to use what I have. (although willing to add more as long as it's useable)
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  #56  
Old July 20th 2004, 14:28
Mysticle31 Mysticle31 is offline
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My train of thought is this: Making the most of the power you have (or finding a good range/power to get) for optimal take offs per your tirers grip.

That way if I had a really tall 1st gear to make use of the power then. Sure I could take it up to 50mph, but the top end would be useless becouse all the other gears would be adjusted accordingly. And I don't need a car with a top speed of 160.

I can generate more power perhaps, and optimise the gearing. Mabey see if I can wind the engine out to 7, 8 grand instead?
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  #57  
Old July 20th 2004, 16:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massive Type IV
My 914 with stock gearing will turn 110 in 3rd gear at 7700 RPM.. Thats with 181 BHP and a rev range to 8,300 RPM.. It idles stock and doesn't sound built till you tap the throttle.
LOL again. of course when you tap that one you are at 7k in the blink of an eye...actually quicker.
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  #58  
Old July 20th 2004, 17:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysticle31
My train of thought is this: Making the most of the power you have (or finding a good range/power to get) for optimal take offs per your tirers grip.

That way if I had a really tall 1st gear to make use of the power then. Sure I could take it up to 50mph, but the top end would be useless becouse all the other gears would be adjusted accordingly. And I don't need a car with a top speed of 160.

I can generate more power perhaps, and optimise the gearing. Mabey see if I can wind the engine out to 7, 8 grand instead?
He can custom build your tranny any way you see fit. The engines have enough power to easily start in second gear but first gear is an extra "burn-out gear." Just say you want to get to 120 mph as fast as possible based on the power of the engine and the setup of the car. He can make the gears do that.
I'm not sure if you mentioned it and apologies if its a silly question, but have you driven a beetle yet??
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  #59  
Old July 20th 2004, 22:35
Mysticle31 Mysticle31 is offline
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Now to throw another stick in the loop (mabey) its not about geting to 120mph as fast as posible. It has to be balanced with the ability to accelerate out of corners/danger just by mashing the gas in the gear that you are in. Unless you want to do it REALLY fast, you downshift (to get peak power). Does that mean close ratio? I don't mind at all if the 3rd to 4th gear shift is a little aqward as long as I can go fast enough in 3rd. (so essencially when I shift to 4th I'm not in the peak powerband but I'm already going way to fast (street) and for the track peak power band aproches rapidly. (Say I was in the middle of noware (AZ, death valley.) I'd like to be able to cruse at a good 90-100.

Of corce..there are sacrafices to be made when I realise how much power I will have vs. how much money to spend will make me a little more realistic about something I will never (or extremely rare) that I do (ie..cruising all day at 100)



Someone onece said autocrosers prefer a 14:1 total 1st gear. And I've seen drag racers use this SUPER short ones. How is that gearing good for them? And their generating all this power on top of it! It seems to render my little "efficency of power delivory and takoff" theory inaccurate.

No I've never driven a super beetle but I have driven many underpowered way high geard cars.
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  #60  
Old July 20th 2004, 23:54
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The perfomance type 4 has a W I D E torque band that should do what you want.
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