Cooling Question

[fast70]

I have a '68 Beetle that has a turboed 2110 and am looking for some ways to cool it. I have a tranny that has a 3.88 R&P and .82 4th. My engine builder thinks that I will be under revving it and it will build up heat due to reduced fan speed.

So, I had the idea that since Jake did tests that show that the 911 fans work better when there is not quite as much air trying to be forced through it, it would be a happy medium. Instead of using the hole drilling method that he used, would my reduced RPM from the transmission along with a good fan ratio be enough to get it to that point of good cooling.

I would really like to use a 911 fan because I have one and it would also free up a lot more room for the turbo setup. But, if it is going to destroy my engine if I use one then I won't.

Thanks for your help,
fast70

[Massive Type IV]

911 fans don't kill engines, they just don't run as cool as other set ups do.

My main emphesis on the tests were to find out what works and what don't, and which ones drwaw the most power.

The 911 fans without a doubt sucked up more power, and the head temperatures were al over the place. Eneven running temps increase your chances of warped heads, cylinders and head leaks due to them. keeping the engine above its optimal temperature also effects efficiency and hurts power as well as fuel economy.

It will gain you some room, but thats about it. It will also gain plenty of eyes from guys that haven't yet found out the truth for themselves.... Alot of guys look up to 911 cooling systems as being the only way to keep an engine cool..... I look down upon them from a position that cost me alot to reach the summit of.

[fast70]

Jake,

If you don't mind me asking, what modifications did you do to the 911 shroud to make it run cooler? Any info would be great. If this is priviliged information, you don't have to tell me or if you could send me an email. This is just for my use only.

Thanks for the help,
fast70

[Massive Type IV]

Drilled holes in the shroud!!!

[fast70]

Can you be a little more specific?

[cnavarro]

Nickies would most definately resolve cooling, sealing, and longevity issues. We have customers running our 90.5 and 92mm Nickies, under boost, both of which use registers of a 94mm cima/mahle, so the walls are extra thick!

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[blue4400]

Now I'm even more confused. I though the porsche fan cools the cyclinders and heads better?? I know it uses a little more power, but that was fine by me as long as it cooled better. Which is the best way to go about cooling the engine better??

[cnavarro]

A 911 fan just delivers more cooling at lower rpms than a stock fan, but there reaches a limit where you just can't push any more air over the cylinders. The same net effect can be reached by changing your pulley ratio and keeping your stock cooling setup. On the other hand, by putting on aluminum cylinders, you can dissipate more heat, which makes better use of the limited airflow that can be pushed past the cylinders.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[boygenius]

Originally Posted by blue4400

Now I'm even more confused. I though the porsche fan cools the cyclinders and heads better?? I know it uses a little more power, but that was fine by me as long as it cooled better. Which is the best way to go about cooling the engine better??

Here are a few things to consider. The 911 fan was designed to cool a 6 cylinder engine and not a 4 cylinder engine. It pushes more cfm than can flow past the cylinders and heads. You can slow the fan speed down to correct the cfm for a 4 cylinder but then you run the risk of under charging the battery. The other thing to consider is that the 911 kit shrouds don't have any directional vanes inside them to direct the air to where it needs to be. One side of the engine may get more air than the other side of the engine and thus cause a temperture difference. Since it takes more power to run you need to give the engine more throttle while driving to maintain speed so the engine is under more load and therefore running hotter. An engines operating tempurture is infuenced by more than the cooling system used. It is influenced by compression ratio, cam choice, carb jetting, fuel grade, ect...

[blue4400]

I'm in the same boat as Fast70

I was reading the article on Germanlook.com, Blowing for a living, reading thread left me a bit confused. I'm building a 2110 turbo motor and a little worried about the cooling especially with the heat and traffic in South Florida. I’m installing a bigger oil cooler with a fan and I though the Porsche fan was the way to go. What would you recommend for me? What would you do for yourself? I already have the Porsche fan and alternator. I also have the vane that goes mounted on the back side of the fan to distribute the air better. I don’t think it will fit but I was thinking of modifying it to fit. Some of the kits I’ve seen can get a bit pricey, so I’ve been looking at the Autocraft or Sharpbuilt kit. I think the Sharpbuilt is better in my opinion. What kit do you think is best or better for the money?

Thanks in Advance for your help

[cnavarro]

Personally, I think the money is better spent using a 36-horse shroud like what Jake used in his shroud comparison tests (which outperformed all other shrouds). When paired with a set of Nickies, this combo would most definately go a long way to dissipating the heat put into the engine and generated by the engine. To keep the cost down, one could always use pistons from a cima/mahle p/c kit- we've found this works great when paired with our cylinders.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[blue4400]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Personally, I think the money is better spent using a 36-horse shroud like what Jake used in his shroud comparison tests (which outperformed all other shrouds). When paired with a set of Nickies, this combo would most definately go a long way to dissipating the heat put into the engine and generated by the engine. To keep the cost down, one could always use pistons from a cima/mahle p/c kit- we've found this works great when paired with our cylinders.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

1.What is the average price of the cylinders?
2.Just in case you know. How good are mahle pistons, how much power do you think they can hold?

[cnavarro]

With a set of mahle pistons, ARP Head Studs, and our Nickies cylinders, ~$2200 (May special) 94a/b. How much boost would be a question to ask for those on here who have used the cast pistons; our thickwalled 90.5s would be good to 25 psi and thickwalled 92s to 15psi. We don't recommend using our 94s for boost, due to thin walls. Also, all of our current turbo customers have opted for forged JE pistons, which bring the kit cost up to $2700. This price includes one off, custom designed pistons, to your desired specs. For example, one customer needed 20ccs in the pistons to dial in their compression ratio to 8.0:1, which saved him from having to semi-hemi his heads for the extra ccs. Again, figuring in the savings from ditching the 911 system paired with the added longevity a set of Nickies provides makes for great combo.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[blue4400]

Thanks cnavarro for you help.

[bobgsinsung]

Like the sound of the 'nickies', seem invaluble in terms of reliability. One question though, do they benefit from thermal transfer coatings on the fins?