amplifier placement in a 1302

[volkdent]

Do you have a list of supplies?

Jason

[oasis]

Originally Posted by volkdent

Do you have a list of supplies?

Yup ... stacked in the living room to my wife's delight. A lot of this stuff is Martian to me so I will just report what the box says.

1 - Scat vinyl shelf for behind the rear seat matching existing interior

1 pr. - fiberglass kick panels from J-Bugs

1 - Alpine V-Power 4-channel power amp (MRP-F250) [50w RMSx4; 2 ohms, <=1% THD+N, 14.4v] (I am assuming the omega symbol stands for ohms.); [40w RMSx4; 4 ohms, <=1% THD+N, 14.4v]

1 pr. - Alpine Type S coaxial 3-way speaker system (SPS-69C3) [6"x9"; 250w peak] (for the rear shelf)

1 pr. - Alpine 5.25" speakers for the kick panels ... These had to be ordered and should be there tomorrow. The specifics are on the receipt but the receipt is locked in the car.)

2* - Alpine MP3/WMA CD receiver (CDA-9857) with "bass engine," 3 pre-amp outputs w/ subwoofer level control, 18w RMS x4, MP3/WMA decoder, Ai Net, satellite radio ready, HD radio ready, made for iPod [Power output measured at 4 ohms and <1% THD+N: S/N: 80 dBA (reference: 1w into 4 ohms)]

2* - Alpine "full speed" connection cable (KCE-422i) [for iPod]

1 - Rockford Fosgate RF Twister signal cable [for receiver to amp] (5 meters)

2 - Rockford Fosgate 16ga. speaker wire [for amp to speakers] (9 meters each)

1 - Rockford Fosgate 8ga. "amp power kit with signal and speaker" power cable "for up to 500w systems" [speaker 12 meters, signal 5 meters, power 5.2 meters)

Plus some other minor doo-dads I would call shop supplies.

(* - I have two headunits and two connection cables because I am making a straight swap in my 2002 Cabrio at the same time as all of this with my 1971 Super ... thereby making me Mr. iPod. )

I think that's everything. I hope I did well. I want to feel like I am right stinking there when listening to my Trappist Monk chants.

[oasis]

I know it's not the baddest system around ... not meant to be ... thought it might generate some opinions.

I will continue as planned ... pics after Wednesday's install.

[Ribz]

thats some pretty good gear you have there, it should sound pretty awesome

the only thing i might recomend is boxing in thoes 6x9s you will be suprised the amount of base they will produce, it will sound good either way though. keep us updated

Good luck
Mike

[oasis]

No pics ... no install ... plenty frustrated.

The news the head unit will not fit in the customary position where the stock Gilligan's Island radio now resides. The unable-to-make-fit report was because:
(1) There's not enough depth behind the dash
(2) The wiper control (behind the dash) is right at the area where the enlarged cutout would be
(3) The wiper motor itself would swing down and clobber the head unit when engaged.

The '71 Super has the wiper knob on the dash. It was moved to a separate stalk for the '72 model year.

So for the moment, everything is being returned. I need to decide if I am going to let someone else take a shot at it, place the head unit somewhere else (this doodle didn't his chances at the glove box idea), or something else.

I am really locked in on wanting the Alpine unit. It is the best I have seen at controlling an iPod. In fact, I am still going ahead with the head unit swap in my '02.

I suppose if I place the head unit in another location, I am going to have to figure out what to do with the stock radio slot. One idea would be gauges, except I really don't want to do anything with gauges until after a new power plant is installed. I suppose I could just leave the AM radio in there taking up space until I cross that bridge.

The bridge I need to cross now is figure out what options I have and which is most acceptable.

I am just so amazed (and bummed) there was a problem given I have seen other DIN-sized radios in the stock position of other Beetles.

Originally Posted by Ribz

the only thing i might recomend is boxing in thoes 6x9s you will be suprised the amount of base they will produce, it will sound good either way though.

Didn't see this somehow until today. With things being rewound back into the 20th Century, I will keep this advice in mind. Thanks! I especially appreciate the support right now in my current frame of mind.

[oasis]

Not a happy ending ... but a happy middle

A fellow at SBO! has a Jensen in his '71. I looked up the dimensions of his particular unit and mine. The two units share the same height and width but the Jensen actually has 5/8" more depth to it than the Alpine I want.

I called up my mechanic of 18 years to get a recommendation for an installer. Lo and behold, they are going to do it. This is very out of the ordinary for them to do this kind of work. I am very happy because I trust these people implicitly and they know how, um, particular I am.

June 6th is the drop-off date. I will attach the suggestions from here, highlighted of course. Hope to have pics that next weekend. Where's the fingers crossed smiley?

[volkdent]

Keep us posted on the project. For some reason I was thinking you might be installing it yourself. If you have questions about doing anything yourself, just ask. Your parts list seemed pretty decent.

Regarding the head unit, I've very happy with mine being in the glove box. Keeps it safe, and you can make anything fit in there.

Jason

[oasis]

Most things beyond oil changes or tire rotations will be uncharted territory for me until I get a garage. I did have the opportunity to assist with the suspension/brake project at my longtime mechanic's place of business on a couple of weekends way back when. Someday I'll be more of a DIY'er ... maybe when I get a 1303.

Since I have to repurchase everything, I have two more questions.

(1) Do I really need the amp? The reason I ask is my 2002 Cabrio had a head unit swap with the exact same Alpine I want to get for my Super. If I have the volume up to just the half-way point, it is blasting me out of the car. I can only imagine going that high if I'm cranking The Who's Live at Leeds at 80 MPH with the top down.

(2) Should I consider switching from a generator to an alternator? I was going to ask this when it came time for the drivetrain upgrade but since this electrical, I thought maybe it was worth asking now. I guess the three choices in answers are (i) yes, now, (ii) yes but wait until you upgrade the engine and transmission, and (iii) no, as long as everything is okay, don't bother.

[volkdent]

Regarding question one: If you really don't have an ear for sound, you'll probably going to think the head unit power is fine. If you are a little particular (which it sounds like you are) you will definately want an external amp. As the volume increases with head unit power, the amplifier output generally gets dirtier and dirtier. Because of this you also increase the chance of blowing speakers, as they are trying to duplicate the dirty siganal but physically can't, overheat and blow. It is MUCH easier to blow a speaker with too little power than with too much.

I would leave things the way they are for now, unless problems develop, but definately replace it with and alternator when you do the motor work.

Jason

[oasis]

Originally Posted by volkdent

If you are a little particular (which it sounds like you are) ...

Boy, ask 5,000 simple questions and quickly get slapped with a label.

Seriously, I want to do the right thing but I was wondering if the Best Buy sales doodle was getting me to overpurchase.

Originally Posted by volkdent

It is MUCH easier to blow a speaker with too little power than with too much.

I had never heard that before. Very interesting.

Originally Posted by volkdent

I would leave things the way they are for now, unless problems develop, but definately replace it with and alternator when you do the motor work.

Thanks for all of your answers.

[samcat]

Originally Posted by oasis

I had never heard that before. Very interesting.

Tis true.

Distorted signal with have clipping, much like a square wave where the very tops and bottoms get chopped off... Causes lots of damage very quickly.

Too much power can be managed, too little is a receipe for disaster. Lots of power generally = lots of control = nice crisp sound.

Too much power cooks voice coils if over done, but would be LOUD... Set the gain somewhere sensible if you have 100 watt rms speakers and a 300 watt rms per channel amp... Around a third would be a good starting point...
Ideally you setup with an ossicilioscope so you can get max power without clipping.

Its well worth the effort, nice sounds is good but superb sounds are even better!

My kit:

Thats an IDMAX 12 D4


Those are CDT Eurosport 620's...

All in my car and it sounds wonderful! VERY crisp and controlled, with plenty of tight bass and it drops down low too...

If you need ANY advice/guidance with your install feel free to drop me a line, have been doing this stuff for years.

And remember, 80% of the sound comes from a GOOD install.. Cheap kit can sound like a million dollars if installed properly, and the reverse is true... Good kit can sound nasty if installed badly.

Keep the faith.

Cya,
SaM C

[volkdent]

Hey Samcat, I thought I had over kill in the bass department! That thing looks huge! I have a JL 12W7 and I regretted getting it when I opened the box, the mass is crazy. One is more than I need!

[Bogara_ZO]

I have just found this topic. Here is a picture of a nice install...but I don't know if it's a super or not.

[oasis]

That is an impressive install. There is also a lot more going on there than what I will have.

I have decided after going over all of the suggestions here, at two other sites I frequent, and from two other sources to do the following:
(1) use planned head unit in AM radio slot
(2) use planned speakers in kick panels and rear shelf
(3) use planned amplifier under rear shelf
(4) move amp and battery forward when engine gets done
(5) make any other changes when amp and battery are moved

I have back-up plans if they become necessary.

I decided I cannot effectively make dash plans with gauges and such until I know if the head unit is going into the AM radio's slot as planned. The dash plans are not that much of a priority at the moment because engine and transmission are next.

I do not have the front trunk area figured out yet. I do know I want the battery and amp up there eventually but I also would like to maximize the available limited area for carrying stuff.

It is a German Looker in spirit so I do want function to be a key. It is also a co-daily driver so it has to fulfill those functions, too.

Thanks for the pic. When the day comes my amp and battery are up there, I want it to look that nice.