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  #121  
Old October 21st 2009, 13:41
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Looks like you have enough space with the radiator up front if you mounted a blower fan on the front side...
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  #122  
Old October 21st 2009, 14:39
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The rad in the rear with a duct does have two major advantages as I see it:

1) It distributes a reasonable amount of weight to the rear to offset the lump in the front

2) With the duct and fan that will have to run almost constantly although I would still use a 'stat, you are creating a makeshift diffuser that will help with the down force on the rear.

Clive
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  #123  
Old October 21st 2009, 17:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilC View Post
The rad in the rear with a duct does have two major advantages as I see it:

1) It distributes a reasonable amount of weight to the rear to offset the lump in the front

2) With the duct and fan that will have to run almost constantly although I would still use a 'stat, you are creating a makeshift diffuser that will help with the down force on the rear.

Clive
I weighed these same pros and cons. It just makes more sense to put it in back.
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  #124  
Old October 21st 2009, 17:47
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Here in the States. Off road trophy trucks all have the radiator and fan in rear. these trucks put out in excess of 700 Brake horsepower and sit for extended periods of time with no overheating problems. Drill a few holes behind license plate to aid in cooling and add some ducting to get more air in area at speed.Like the side ducts that are popular in the German Look crowd.
http://image.off-roadweb.com/f/84993...Suspension.jpg
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  #125  
Old October 22nd 2009, 11:02
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THANKS for all the help and suggestions. I'm actually reconsidering my original radiator setup plan.

New plan. I'm going to lay the radiator flat / horizontal and use the factory vents that take advantage of the low pressure system behind the car to draw air into the "engine compartment to cool the air cooled engine, but in my case it'll cool the radiator. Also, I'll build some ductwork to direct the airflow through the radiator and out of the underside of the car which, in my mind, will keep the hot air from the exhaust and engine out.




Lastly, if I find myself in need of a little more air flow to radiator I'll get some deck lid stand offs.




I'm thinking I might not need them because the later model vw deck lids have vents to increase air flow, or is it to let hot air out from the engine?

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  #126  
Old October 24th 2009, 06:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8SuperBeetle View Post
THANKS for all the help and suggestions. I'm actually reconsidering my original radiator setup plan.

New plan. I'm going to lay the radiator flat / horizontal and use the factory vents that take advantage of the low pressure system behind the car to draw air into the "engine compartment to cool the air cooled engine, but in my case it'll cool the radiator. Also, I'll build some ductwork to direct the airflow through the radiator and out of the underside of the car which, in my mind, will keep the hot air from the exhaust and engine out.




Lastly, if I find myself in need of a little more air flow to radiator I'll get some deck lid stand offs.



I'm thinking I might not need them because the later model vw deck lids have vents to increase air flow, or is it to let hot air out from the engine?
I think the air flow is the wrong way round. You need to suck the air from the underside and vent out from the top. I agree that the vents under the rear window are in a high pressure zone, as is the decklid vents on a super but to a lesser extent. You could add a cowl over the decklid vents as per a 70's bug that would create a low pressure area, similarly with a roof mounted lip.
A further consideration is that in traffic the cool air will be under the car with the hot air on top. If nothing else there will be a natural flow up from the bottom to the top (hot air rises) so assisting the cooling through the rad. with your system as soon as you stop the air flow will reverse unless beaten back by the fan.
In the desert/off-road world there will be serious consideration given to sucking up debris that would clog or damage a radiator. For a street car this isn't a real consideration unless you intend to regularly blast up unmade tracks. In the '80s I used to campaign a road rally Imp - a rear engined water cooled car with an engine driven fan attached to a radiator that sucked air from below on the left hand side. Given the proximity of the LH rear wheel the rad stayed remarkably clear even when it was used in anger down muddy farm tracks.
i think that you will find that you will need a fair amount of vent so initially take advantage of all the outlets including drilling holes in the number plate panel and standing the number plate off to assist in air flow.

Clive
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  #127  
Old October 26th 2009, 11:44
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I got some progress done this weekend. Not as much as I would've liked. I had my 10 year high school reunion on Friday night and I had a gig the following night. I was nursing a hangover most of the weekend. Ugh...good fun though.

Any who, here were are. Got the subframe for the radiator made.




Here you can see how the rad bolts in. Fairly simple.






I then welded it into the body. Notice the penetration on the rear clip.




I then made a template for the ductwork? Basically it'll keep the hot air from recirculating with the cold air. Next I just need to make a duct to direct the air out the back of the car and which will also help to keep hot engine air from reaching the rad.

Setting up the radiator leaned back rather than flat filled the area better and will be less sheet metal work that I have to do.

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  #128  
Old October 29th 2009, 01:11
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If your going that way I would agree with the upflow option out the top. To really make this thing work well, I would add scoops under the car to gather air and force it through the rad. The biggest thing will be making sure there are absolutely no bubbles in the system IMO, bleeding is the MOST important detail of making a system work properly.

Jason
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  #129  
Old November 16th 2009, 12:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkdent View Post
If your going that way I would agree with the upflow option out the top. To really make this thing work well, I would add scoops under the car to gather air and force it through the rad. The biggest thing will be making sure there are absolutely no bubbles in the system IMO, bleeding is the MOST important detail of making a system work properly.

Jason
Thanks for the suggestion Jason! I will definitely have the system bled. I'm going to give this setup a try. Draw in air from the top and blowing it out below. If it doesn't work well I'll reverse the flow.
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  #130  
Old November 16th 2009, 12:56
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Some updates.

Well, it's been a nice long week off. Saturday, Nov. 7th I got married and I took the week off following the wedding. So I really didn't do too much to the bug, but I did manage to get some work done.




Some of the small things I did that weren't worth photographing are things like moving the tranny crossmember forward and torquing the tranny mount bolts, the crossmember bolts, bell housing, bolts, etc.


Few things I ordered came in. FlowMaster 40 series 2.5" mufflers, flexplate / tranny dust cover, inline water filler neck, and an overflow plug for the radiator. I plan to have the overflow come from the inline neck rather than from the radiator.




The garage was getting a little out of control so I felt the need to get it organized. That and I got tired of working off of the floor. So I built a table, a tool organizer and cleaned up the garage.






Painted and installed the tranny dipstick, as mentioned.




I started making the firewall, engine bay, and floor patterns. I'm almost finished with the patterns. All that's left is the section that'll go behind me. There's a few 4' x 8' sheets of 14 gauge steel I plan to use because it's free and it should be plenty strong for the flooring.




Last but not least, I cut out some 2" reinforcement triangles out of the 1/8" plates that came with my cage and welded them into the top of the cage, the dash bar, the lateral bars, and the main hoop outriggers. The pics look like crap and the flux doesn't help, but they came out really well. I also redid a couple of the cage welds so they would nicer. I'm getting better at this overhead welding business.








By the end of this week I hope to at least have the flooring on it's way to being finished. Once that's done I'll take it to the muffler shop and have the exhaust and plumbing work done.

More soon...
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  #131  
Old November 30th 2009, 15:22
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Alright. It's been a while since there's been an update. Really cause there has been much done, but I did manage to get some work done. Not as much as I would've liked. It took me longer than I though it would. You would think I would know by now that something always takes longer to accomplish than I originally plan.

For starters, I bought a starter.




I tacked in the body sections I cutout so I could weld up the cage good.






I bought a sheet of 4' x 8' 14 gauge steel to use for the firewall and flooring. I also got a free piece of 14 from work. Not quite a 4' x 8' piece but it'll do for the rear interior section. Here's some pics of the firewall, driver side, passenger side and the section that goes behind the seat tacked in.






I might have to rethink the trans tunnel and driveshaft tunnel because bending 14 gauge steel wont be easy. I'm thinking of just making it boxed. I'll have more soon.
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  #132  
Old December 1st 2009, 02:01
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crazy sick
almost there, weld a beach chair and take that baby for a spin
hahahahah
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  #133  
Old December 1st 2009, 06:04
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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Awesome!! Very well done conversion! The S-10 Frame is a great idea and looks great! That is going to be a monster.....A friend of mine has an Audi V8 twin turbo as a mid engine in his bug pushing about 750BHP...I´m telling you...a V8 in a bug will scare the scheisse out of you
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  #134  
Old December 1st 2009, 08:35
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I really don't understand the need to use 14g - it is as you say difficult to bend. 16g should be more than sufficient for most chassis and strengthening plates with 18-20g for bodywork. Are you expecting the tranny tunnel to take impact loads from the prop or clutch? If so, you might be better off with a retraint hoop around the prop and a kevlar blanket around the clutch. I would have thought that a box section 14g tranny tunnel to have been weaker than a bent 16g one. The box tunnel will have the highest stresses at the corners whereas with a bent section these stresses are distributed around the sheet. the other problem you will have with plain sheet is the one of noise. The flat sheets will vibrate in harmony with the vibrations from the engine/trans/road. It would have been better to add folds to the sheet to cut down the frequency at which the sheet will be in sympathetic harmony. Again, a 16g sheet would have been more than ample for the job there.

Clive
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  #135  
Old December 1st 2009, 14:16
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Thanks guys! It's getting there. I think it'll be a scary ride to begin with until I get a handle on driving it.

Thanks for the suggestion Clive, I understand. I might get some 16 or 18 for the drive shaft tunnel and the tranny tunnel. The reason for the 14 gauge is because I don't have a bead roller. Otherwise I would've used 18 gauge steel. I was told I need at least 14 gauge steel, without beads, so it doesn't tin can / flop around. There's some large sections that don't have any support to keep it from tin canning such as the area behind the seats and between the rear windows. The section that's welded in behind where the seat would go I cannot get to move or tin can. It might tin can if it were 18 gauge or even 16 possibly. Also, I plan to mount my break pedal on the firewall, so I need the strength. 16 gauge might have been fine but the car could benefit from a little weight (strength and power to weight ratio wise) going with 14 gauge. The only draw back is it's not easy bending 14 gauge compared to 18.
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