GermanLook Forums  

Go Back   GermanLook Forums > General > Project Builds

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 1st 2012, 13:30
K9Dober K9Dober is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Denmark
Posts: 8
TIV engine project

It really started out as a TI 2332 project for my '56 oval, but has ended up as a TIV 3000 turbo project without a car. I wanted to build a sleeper out of my '56 with the look of a completely original car, but with big power. Since then, due to different circumstances, including Wallys impressive build and results , the TI has been sold, and things have evolved a bit. The '56 is now being restored to completely original deluxe specs.

One of the issues in choice of vehicule for the new engine, is handling. That's why it's not going to be the '56. I'm leaning towards a super, preferably a '75, but being as messed up as I am, you'd actually never know what'll happen.

So, instead it's going to be an original TIV housing, with 90mm full circle crank & 103mm LN Nickies with JE pistons. Other parts on the shelves are vanagon heads, completely redone with extra fins, Pauter rockers, TI lifters, ARP bolts, Riechert cooling and a GT76 turbo with 2 different housings, one 0.81 and one 1.15, unsure of which will be used.

Cam is going to be a JPM raptor and rods from FAT performance, neither of these are on the shelves at the moment.

There are many unsolved issues yet, and there will be a lot of trial and error. The builder has been building TIV engines for more than 25 years, including different turbo and race engines, and some of these engines has been driven for +20 years without major hickups. Yet, this build will only be accomplished by the help of a lot of people, including this GL forum.

Another issue is time. Both the builder and I have many projects on the sides, and as my job includes over 250 travel days a year, this will not be a quick solve. I hope that the longblock will be assembled by May, and maybe turnkey in winter next year. Then comes the issue of the car!

Lets see if this journey will ever end, and I hope that you'll chime in with comments as this (hopefully!) will evolve.

And a happy new year to all of you!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 2nd 2012, 16:58
hotsauce's Avatar
hotsauce hotsauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Queentuckey, AZ
Posts: 102
Sound expensive.
__________________
just another square saltine.



www.garagejunkieapparel.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 3rd 2012, 10:03
Wally's Avatar
Wally Wally is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,534
^^ This forum is not about what our hobby costs imo, but what everybody's dreams and passions are.

To me, it sounds like fun!
Is Jacob your engine builder?
Personally I wouldn't do a 90mm stroke, especially not in a turbo as it can hinder reliability more then it gains in performance imo.
What does the GT76 flow max and what are your boost and hp goals?

Oh, and sorry for being responsible about your T1 gotten sold
Now on the irony side: there's a 1200 T1-turbo now in my 1303 and I've sold the Riechert cooling...
__________________
'75 Super.
...because race car!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 3rd 2012, 10:23
NO_H2O's Avatar
NO_H2O NO_H2O is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Stockbridge, GA.
Posts: 2,810
Sounds like a great project. I to would skip the 90 mm crank. They don't leave much room for cam lobes. But a 103x80 should be a beast. I would like to build a 102 x 71 EFI turbo set up one day.
__________________
NO_H2O
72 1302 Smack Black GL
73 Bus (2L CIS Powered)
66 Beetle, 73 Standard Beetle
72 Pinzgauer 710M
Volksport Kafer Gruppe
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 3rd 2012, 12:09
hotsauce's Avatar
hotsauce hotsauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Queentuckey, AZ
Posts: 102
Expensive usually goes hand in hand with fun. Guess I should have elaborated.
__________________
just another square saltine.



www.garagejunkieapparel.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 4th 2012, 12:46
K9Dober K9Dober is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Denmark
Posts: 8
Thanks for your comments!

@hotsauce: Being married is expensive, this is my playground!

@Wally: No, Jacob isn't the builder. He'll install new seats in the heads, but the rest is up to the builder. I know that a 90mm is causing different issues, but I've knowledge of different N/A engines with 90mm stroke that are working pretty well, and have done for a couple of years. FAT makes rods similar to Cunningham rods. A dragracer has them in his 2,7 TIV powered 1303, and they have been abused for a long period, eventhough they are pretty thin at the bottom. I do have a 78,4mm crank also if everything goes south. I haven't got a flowchart for the turbo, unfortunately. It is a BB Innovative 76mm in/80mm out, which has done 3 dyno runs on Leif Nyströms drag engine. It was too small though for his engine! The 1.15 is divided, and the 0.81 is single.

@NO_H2O: I don't think cam lobes will be too bad, and the builder has also done the 2,7 I described further up, and there's actually a lot of room in that engine.

Thanks guys!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 4th 2012, 14:30
Wally's Avatar
Wally Wally is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by K9Dober View Post
It is a BB Innovative 76mm in/80mm out, which has done 3 dyno runs on Leif Nyströms drag engine. It was too small though for his engine! The 1.15 is divided, and the 0.81 is single.
Right, thats a HUGE turbo! I saw it also has a T4 turbine footprint
How was the ride Leif gave you with this turbo? LOL

Just for consideration: a 90mm on a 200-250 hp N/A engine might behave differently on a 600-750hp engine
It is cool to just try it though and run a crazy good 1/4 mile time...once Nah, just teasing you
__________________
'75 Super.
...because race car!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 4th 2012, 14:51
volkdent's Avatar
volkdent volkdent is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 1,684
Pics please, I'm a visual learner!

Jason
__________________
If I could just get paid for my sleepless nights....
1960 VW Bug UBRDUB
Walkaround
1st Drag Run

Dyno Run
Oval Ragster-'57 Rag/'04 Boxster S
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 6th 2012, 06:25
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 545
Quote:
So, instead it's going to be an original TIV housing, with 90mm full circle crank & 103mm LN Nickies with JE pistons. Other parts on the shelves are vanagon heads, completely redone with extra fins, Pauter rockers, TI lifters, ARP bolts, Riechert cooling and a GT76 turbo with 2 different housings, one 0.81 and one 1.15, unsure of which will be used.

Cam is going to be a JPM raptor and rods from FAT performance, neither of these are on the shelves at the moment.
Hi,
I agree with Wally and the others also.I wouldn´t go with a 90mm crank.You won´t have any advantage and you will have to take a lot of material out of the case.I save the money and keep the stock 71mm crank.Stock rods with ARP or Raceware bolts will do the job also.Again take a look at Wally´s build he´s pumping out 460hp reliably out of 2.2 Liters and 500hp is possible.He has a stock 66mm crank and rods.
If you do want more,then I wouldn´t go any higher than a 82mm crank and then either Moldex or Pauter.There´s just no need to go with a big crank.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 6th 2012, 11:22
chug_A_bug's Avatar
chug_A_bug chug_A_bug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada, Ontario, Stoney Creek
Posts: 1,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkdent View Post
Pics please, I'm a visual learner!

Jason


__________________
74 Std. GL
02 Ford Ranger 4L 2wd
08 Vw rabbit
18 WR250R
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old January 6th 2012, 12:36
NO_H2O's Avatar
NO_H2O NO_H2O is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Stockbridge, GA.
Posts: 2,810
I used an 82 mm crank with chevy rod journals in my type 4 and and only have 0.020 clearance between the cam lobe and rods. Cam has 0.500 lift on a 1 inch base circle. So a 90 mm will limit the lift or your cam a good bit and require lots of case material to be removed. The 78.4 will almost be a drop fit with chevy rod journals.
__________________
NO_H2O
72 1302 Smack Black GL
73 Bus (2L CIS Powered)
66 Beetle, 73 Standard Beetle
72 Pinzgauer 710M
Volksport Kafer Gruppe
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old January 6th 2012, 13:39
Wally's Avatar
Wally Wally is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,534
Hey Mark,

You really don't need the stock crank or want that always. More displacement is always a good thing: faster spool of a bigger turbo :-)
Personally I would limit the stroke at 78mm with type 1 rod journals (55mm) for optimum on stroke and strength.
Head flow and how much boost your engine can take will largely determine the max hp, the size of the engine only how much rpm it takes to get to full boost.
But I am sure you won't grenade the engine after start-up with larger strokes ;-)
__________________
'75 Super.
...because race car!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old January 6th 2012, 22:35
hotsauce's Avatar
hotsauce hotsauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Queentuckey, AZ
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Turbobug View Post
Hi,
I agree with Wally and the others also.I wouldn´t go with a 90mm crank.You won´t have any advantage and you will have to take a lot of material out of the case.I save the money and keep the stock 71mm crank.Stock rods with ARP or Raceware bolts will do the job also.Again take a look at Wally´s build he´s pumping out 460hp reliably out of 2.2 Liters and 500hp is possible.He has a stock 66mm crank and rods.
If you do want more,then I wouldn´t go any higher than a 82mm crank and then either Moldex or Pauter.There´s just no need to go with a big crank.

So a stock crank is suitable for a Turbo application? **** I might just put my type 4 in like originally planned if that's the case.......
__________________
just another square saltine.



www.garagejunkieapparel.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old January 7th 2012, 04:57
Wally's Avatar
Wally Wally is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsauce View Post
So a stock crank is suitable for a Turbo application? **** I might just put my type 4 in like originally planned if that's the case.......
Yes, of course. I used a stock 2 ltr unit and got 220 hp, then with ratio rockers and still stock cam, stock pistons, (but with single HD springs) I got 270 hp...

Hermann from South Africa got 400 hp from his 2 ltr, like 10 years ago.
Of course, I could hardy believe it and certainly didn't understand it, but if you know tuning and turbo engines and what makes them tick, you can make any platform fast. Since the type 4 is a VERY strong engine to begin with and cools really well, it is an excellent platform to do so.
This is what I was trying to convey the other day, but got a 'good day to you sir' in the end...
__________________
'75 Super.
...because race car!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old January 7th 2012, 17:57
hotsauce's Avatar
hotsauce hotsauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Queentuckey, AZ
Posts: 102
Sounds like I need to set some time aside and read your entire mythbuster thread...... thanks for the advice Wally! (And sorry to hijack your thread)
__________________
just another square saltine.



www.garagejunkieapparel.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 18:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© www.GermanLook.net 2002-2017. All Rights Reserved