Eyeball vs Mendeola Bot-on A-arm conversion

[volksmeister]

Guys.. anyone did a comparison between the two?

I am really impressed by what Bruce & the guys are doing over at Eyeball..
Their narrowed version (i think) will be useful for those who wanna stay with the stock fenders.. They cost $3,000 without spindles or brakes... no coilovers too i think. Not necessary a bad thing since one can use whatever they desire accordingly to their individual need.
However I am quite bummed about the obvious lack of a front sway bar..

Mendeola A-arm includes the lot at just under $4,000. Hmmm...

With my limited knowledge on suspension/steering geometry, I have no insight on any technical comparison.. Anyone?

[ricola]

Mendeola would win hands down for me, I really don't like using steering arm ball joints for wishbone joints, I've had bad experiences of this before...

[Humble]

I'm with ricola, The eyeball kit is overpriced and has a lot of slop built in by using ball joints. I'd be afraid to track that setup or even drive it home. The mendeola I've had eyes on since it was in hot vw's. I've been thinking of another fun project with a friend and it would probably get the mendeola front. It's just built right, double shear, sway bar mounts, and is compatible with super beetle pan heads.

[evilC]

I agree with Humble and Rich. Eyeballs goes some way there but on that arrangement I would use rod ends for ultimate adjustability. On both of them the arms could be longer given that its almost a clean sheet of paper. Mendeola's arms appear even shorter so the camber change will be harder to control in roll. If you are going to fit a double wishbone front why not go the whole hog and use very long arms with maybe bell cranks and monoshock? Or is that too radical?

Clive

[volkdent]

I'm not totally thrilled with either, if I could I'd take the sway bar, structure, and some of the design of the Mendeola and mix it will the bolt on of the Eye-Ball. I spoke with the guys from Mendeola about this a long time ago, but they insisted it couldn't be made to bolt on, I don't think they tried hard enough. I suspect a version 2.0 or 3.0 out of Mendeola will be the hot ticket.

Jason

[Crimson_Axe]

I think the latest version is mostly bolt-on with a little bit of welding for strength

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401807

[Deacon Blues]

How does the Red 9 Design compare?

[jmd]

I've been searching alternate front end solutions as an exercise and found this forum. While they deal with the more 'rod type stuff this suspension solution looked at the least interesting.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=68746

Anyone know anything about it?
http://www.wizrod.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aircooled_conversions/pix/wizrod/ifs1_small.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_a4hBuFEztOQ/TQDyYTgOFvI/AAAAAAAAABY/w-7-cqrZKbA/FrontEnd4.jpg

I also was turned onto this one as well. This one is designed for a volksrod (I think) and includes a 12 inch stretch built in.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_a4hBuFEztOQ/TQDyXaFJspI/AAAAAAAAABI/-74RKuc-CLs/FrontEnd1.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_a4hBuFEztOQ/TQDyXwFGDmI/AAAAAAAAABQ/8RD79ZnpnpI/FrontEnd2.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_a4hBuFEztOQ/TQDyYJ8Ct_I/AAAAAAAAABU/75_rrRFBmsc/FrontEnd3.jpg

[evilC]

What operates the rockers on the volksrod front end?

[DORIGTT]

It appears that the upper a-arm is attached to the rocker.

[evilC]

That's what I thought but couldn't believe it! The classic way is to use struts off the bottom ball joint area working a crank that then gives the opportunity to vary the ride height and the wheel rate without touching the coilover unit. The arrangement shown is very neat and without any other indication you would swear it hadn't got any suspension with the body on.

Clive

[DORIGTT]

Seriously cool for looks that's for sure.

[coolrydes]

Guys.. anyone did a comparison between the two?

I am really impressed by what Bruce & the guys are doing over at Eyeball..
Their narrowed version (i think) will be useful for those who wanna stay with the stock fenders.. They cost $3,000 without spindles or brakes... no coilovers too i think. Not necessary a bad thing since one can use whatever they desire accordingly to their individual need.
However I am quite bummed about the obvious lack of a front sway bar..

Mendeola A-arm includes the lot at just under $4,000. Hmmm...

With my limited knowledge on suspension/steering geometry, I have no insight on any technical comparison.. Anyone?

I have not been in these forums for a long time. Sorry.

Here are pictures of what you get for $3300 (everything from spindle to spindle) and it will fit under type one stock fenders. the last picture is the rear kit. This kit allows for camber and toe adjustments to truely tighten the handling up. Our test car put down 1.05 "G's".

[coolrydes]

I understand that people are still trying to figure out what the differences are between the A-arm kits. Here is what I posted up for some guys over on the Samba....


Just looking at them the Mendeola looks to be beefier and stronger. Welding is always fun so I wouldn't mind that, but I'm not to keen on the big in your face advert for their company on it, kinda vain. I'd say leave that off and give me a decal I could put on the window if I wanted to. The UK model looks good, but I like the videos on the eyeball site. What's funny is in my Jegs catalog you could buy one of these for a Mustang for about $2k or less, so why are these so expensive? I like the other products on the Mendeola site and wouldn't mind an entire pan from them, if it didn't cost so much. I'm not naive, I'd rather pay for quality than for some cheaply made crap, but someone on these websites needs to say WHY their product is better than another, not just because they say so. Look at Jack Raby at aircooled.net YEARS of testing go into his products and he's not afraid to show off the test data to prove why his stuff rocks.


Sorry,
I had to jump in here on this one.
Like Jake Raby we spent and spend endless amounts of time to fully refine our products. If you look into our transaxle line we've been known for quality products.
Our new chassis line went thru a lot of testing. We first looked at the Red 9 and the Eyeball, we also looked at the Pete's a-arm bolt on kit. They all had good and bad points. Just for the sake of examples here are some of the things we did and did not like. Also to achieve the high level of performance we wanted, we had to design our own.
Please understand we are only pointing out our findings before designing our own. Hell, we made our front end handle so well we needed to design a rear system to tighten up the rear suspension also. Our rear kits features the same great Fox racing shocks, a rear sway bar, toe and camber adjustments. Originally we did not intend to sell these to the public, however after I drove one of these and being a VW guy for over 20 years, I knew I had to make these available to all type 1 based vehicles.

Red 9:
The good
good design
very strong

The bad
no sway bar
shipping cost
wait time to clear customs
very little adjustability
steering knuckles being bolted onto the spindles

Eyeball:
The good
bolts on with out removing the body

The bad
Difficult adjustments. in a-arms
No sway bar at the time we looked it over
Bolts being in sheer
Overall design seemed to light weight possibly a little weak?
Reeling on the sheet metal portions of the pan to support the twist
the use of tie rods in key pivot positions

Pete's A-arm kits
The good
plenty strong
bolt on
uses a stock beam style bolt on frame so that the weight of the car is supported just like it was originally Bolts not in sheer

The bad
not very adjustable
no sway bar
not really designed for street cars more for off road
out weighed a stock beam by 12 lbs
Cost (you still have to get spindles and buy the sway bar)

As far as the MENDEOLA name on it. It's not that we are trying to show off or act like we are better then anyone else. It is to protect our investment. We have 6 major lines of transaxles in current production and a few years back we had a company copy three of the 6 lines. They splashed almost every part. You could even see our Mendeola name in their first cases. Needless to say they saw the inside of the court room a few times over this. Having our name on it does two things. For us it protects our investment. For the customer it say quality. If you ever want to sell your car it will add value.

[coolrydes]

If you want one of our High Performance a-arm kits or our rear kit here is the link to our add on the Samba
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1076832
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1076832

[coolrydes]

Here's our all new Super Beetle kit ready for shipment. This one is going to France. This new kits allows for not only type 1302 and 1303 s to use our kit but is also very custom chassis friendly. Take a look at www.thesamba.com under general parts in the classifieds for futher info on these kits.
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/788611.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/788612.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/788613.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/788614.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/788615.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/788616.jpg

[volkdent]

Looking good!!! Do you guys use standard or metric hardware?

Jason

[evilC]

I see the bottom bracket of the coilover is very low. How does it look with the wheel/brake combination assembled on it? how much ground clearance is there with a standard 640mm o/a dia wheel and tyre on?

[coolrydes]

Looking good!!! Do you guys use standard or metric hardware?

Jason
Thank you for the kind words.

All of the gold hardware is 1/2 standard because getting metric in our area from the local bolts houses is super hard :angry:. I would prefer to use all metric. We do you metric on the sway bar and rack mounts. :)

[coolrydes]

I see the bottom bracket of the coilover is very low. How does it look with the wheel/brake combination assembled on it? how much ground clearance is there with a standard 640mm o/a dia wheel and tyre on?

I thought the same thing the first time I looked at it, then the engineer pointed out the fact that it is in line with the spindle. This means that anything that goes under the wheel will lift the suspension the same amount.

Here is a picture of the Speedwell oval with 17 inch wheels and a 195/40 tyre.

[evilC]

You certainly can't see the bracket in the photo that means that it is above that car's lowest point. The bottom bracket does move up and down with the wheel so the clearance with the road remains reasonably constant but I couldn't work out what that dimension was and it looks as though it will be inboard of the wheel inner edge.

Clive

[volkdent]

What is the lb/in rate you guys like to use for these?

Jason

[coolrydes]

You certainly can't see the bracket in the photo that means that it is above that car's lowest point. The bottom bracket does move up and down with the wheel so the clearance with the road remains reasonably constant but I couldn't work out what that dimension was and it looks as though it will be inboard of the wheel inner edge.

Clive

Here is a better picture with 17 inch wheels

[coolrydes]

What is the lb/in rate you guys like to use for these?

Jason

I do not understand what you are asking here?
"What is the lb/in rate you guys like to use for these?"

[Steve C]

Hi

I'll put one of these units in list of things I need when rich.

Do you have any photos of how it attaches the super bug frame head? Just curious.

Steve

PS Beautiful work

[volkdent]

I do not understand what you are asking here?
"What is the lb/in rate you guys like to use for these?"

When you purchase aftermarket springs that are for no specific application you generally buy based on:

1) Overall diameter
2) Length
3) Spring rate

In North America as far as I've ever seen the spring rate is measured in pounds per inch (lb/in), that is a one inch depression of the spring will be able to resist a specific weight. So, a 180lb/in spring will be able to support 180lbs when depressed one inch, 360lbs for 2 inches of compression, etc. Some springs are wound in such a way that they are progressive, so the more they are compressed the more they actually resist being compressed, but those don't seem to be as commonly used as the one to one lb/in measurement.

Sway bars don't affect the spring rate if both sides are compressed together, but if one is compressed more than the other, the additional spring rate of the torsion bar can be added to that of the actual spring.

Jason

[coolrydes]

When you purchase aftermarket springs that are for no specific application you generally buy based on:

1) Overall diameter
2) Length
3) Spring rate

In North America as far as I've ever seen the spring rate is measured in pounds per inch (lb/in), that is a one inch depression of the spring will be able to resist a specific weight. So, a 180lb/in spring will be able to support 180lbs when depressed one inch, 360lbs for 2 inches of compression, etc. Some springs are wound in such a way that they are progressive, so the more they are compressed the more they actually resist being compressed, but those don't seem to be as commonly used as the one to one lb/in measurement.

Sway bars don't affect the spring rate if both sides are compressed together, but if one is compressed more than the other, the additional spring rate of the torsion bar can be added to that of the actual spring.

Jason

Ok now I understand what you were asking. Our standard spring rate is 250lbs. However we can go higher or lower as needed for different car weights and applications. We can also change shock valving to suit a certain use.

[evilC]

Here is a better picture with 17 inch wheels

Thanks for the photo, it shows what I feared in that the bottom coilover mount would be vulnerable to road and kerb damage over here.

From the overall layout it occurred to me that it has the potential for inboard coilover mounts operated by rockers?

Clive

[coolrydes]

Thanks for the photo, it shows what I feared in that the bottom coilover mount would be vulnerable to road and kerb damage over here.

From the overall layout it occurred to me that it has the potential for inboard coilover mounts operated by rockers?

Clive

Yes,
you could rocker them, however the stock tank may have to be lifted enough for the shocks to clear.

[flat]

I just did a brake setup for a Mendeola a-arm system. BoxsterS/993:

http://vdubengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mendeola2.jpg

http://vdubengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mendeola.jpg

Lanner

[coolrydes]

Very nice work!!!

We are working on a new hub and caliper addapter for 944 brakes.

[volksmeister]

Both Lanner and Kevin makes great stuff~!... plus they were really cool with the tons of questions I have.. kudos to both of them..
Will be putting together the front end and brakes soon.. will try to post some pics when I finally put em together:)

[SuperRSi]

Lanner can your hub set up for the Mendeola work with the 996TT brakes? I would like to buy the Mendeola front and rear and use the big brakes.

Kevin give me a call and let me know how far until you are ready for your kit. Can we buy your suspension without hubs and buy the Lanner units? I need to get the suspension on in the next month.

Thanks Guys

[coolrydes]

Lanner can your hub set up for the Mendeola work with the 996TT brakes? I would like to buy the Mendeola front and rear and use the big brakes.

Kevin give me a call and let me know how far until you are ready for your kit. Can we buy your suspension without hubs and buy the Lanner units? I need to get the suspension on in the next month.

Thanks Guys

Our kits are for sale without front and rear brakes. Cost for complete front and rear kits are $5700usd.

[flat]

Lanner can your hub set up for the Mendeola work with the 996TT brakes? I would like to buy the Mendeola front and rear and use the big brakes.

Yeah,
I can set it up for anything basically. IMHO, that's overkill, the rotors (24lbs ea) will be boat-anchors, but I guess the composite does help offset the weight. The Boxster S setup is a good compromise between performance and weight, on lighter cars I prefer regular boxster.

[SuperRSi]

Well I bought front and rear. Will post pics once we start.

[crimson ghost]

Subscribing for updates :)

[SuperRSi]

No return email in 10 days. No return phone calls either in those 10 days. Suspension pre-paid in full just to "get in line". No delivery date. I would just sell off the 993TT brake calipers and source some Cayman S ones if that would speed things up for existing design, but no response from Kevin. Week 5 of waiting for suspension is still no fun...

So it might actually be quicker to ship one from Europe! I think the most frustrating thing is one sees the photos of acres of suspension parts and assembled suspensions which makes you think that delivery is just an assembly away. Kevin call me.

[onixbonilla]

Hi Super RSi.
Kevin from Mendeola is on Vacation on Hawaii until September 26. Before he left all new suspension parts were send for powder coating. I know because mine are on that batch!:driving:

[SuperRSi]

Would have been good business to let us all know. But thank you for letting me know. We are supposed to have the car at SEMA but not going to make it so that was not helping my attitude. Oh well, next year.

[onixbonilla]

Can not answer you that, as I am only one of his customers. But I can understand you about the show. Earlier this year we were invited to the Car Crazy TV show and we were very late waiting from suppliers. We managed to pull it off at the last minute! So do not lost hope!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6173283069_16f88c2225_b.jpg

[coolrydes]

Hello, Guys

Sorry I did not post I was going on vacation, however I took my laptop thinking the Hawaii was like the states with wifi in every hotel. It turned out that was not the case. I am back now and trying to get everything back up to speed.

Super RSI what is your true name? I would like to follow up on your kit so I can give you a status on it. Sorry about SEMA, I know how you feel, been there done that.

[Panelfantastic]

SEMA is responsible for more ulcers than spicy curry.

[SuperRSi]

Kevin, if you would just return my repeated voice mails or your emails you would have talked to me this week. If you looked at my location and my signature line you would have known who I am. Yet another week goes by...

[SuperRSi]

Well I got fed up and finally just called Mike Mendeola at Mendeola Transmissions today. Very nice guy. It seems there was only six sets of suspensions built in this last run and they should be ready to go to powdercoat maybe today and be finished in a week or two. So says the man. And when these suspensions are delivered that will be the end of Mendeola suspensions. Mike said the low demand is causing him to shut the doors on the Suspension division upon delivery of this build unit. I can only hope that they can stay in the transmission business as I would love to have a Mendeola trans some day. Beautiful work. And hope our suspensions will be too! I told him the way Kevin behaved I thought he might be the nephew he had to give a job to...

[56SemaRag]

Good to know. Mine should be one of the six as well, what's a few more weeks at this point.

[SuperRSi]

Working it out.

[Panelfantastic]

Jeezus. :shocked:

I need a hug after reading through all that. I hope you guys get it all worked out.

Super, I waited 6 1/2 months for a set of fake BRMs to be widened. 4 1/2 months for a set of narrowed rear control arms for my bus. 4 months for a set of steel wheels for my truck... I have sympathy for your anger.


Jeff-

[ricola]

This sort of unfortunate episode is exactly why anything custom on my car has been done by the only person I can rely on... ME!

[NO_H2O]

coolrydes and SuperRSI. Please work you problems out outside this forum. This is not a rant page. I have deleted the last post from each of you as they were a bit too much.

[NO_H2O]

6 more deleted posts since I asked you guys to cool it. I will lock this thread now.