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oasis
January 24th 2003, 13:15
Hi,

Can there be an air-cooled diesel? If yes, can it be a Type IV?

The reason I ask is because while waiting to locate a suitable 1303 for my GL project*, I've been reading different materials on water-cooled tuning. (I own a 2002 Golf GLS TDI and a 2002 Cabrio. Neither will get modified until closer to the end of each car's warranty period.) The Cabrio with its 2.0 (the only engine available in the US) has more HP, but less torque than the TDI.

After reading the aforementioned articles on how some have modified the TDI to beat the heck out of comparably modified petrol-burners, and the fact I'm looking for a modified GL that will be torquey (not a word, I’m sure), I started wondering if an air-cooled diesel would be possible/practical/affordable and better, even.

Thanks to anyone who has some thoughts,
René

PS- Installing a water-cooled TDI into a 1303 is not an option for me unless someone can do some pretty good convincing.

*PPS- I am calling a chap in Texas on a 1975 SB tonight. If it sounds as promising as his ad, I may make the 1179 mile trek to check it out in person.

Pillow
January 24th 2003, 14:59
Interesting question...

I doubt the heads or for that matter the head studs can take the pressures that a diesel creates.

Also a machanical fuel pump would need put in place for the injectors, could be a small challenge as well. But doable.

I very much like diesels, but I do not think an ACVW motor could do it as a conversion.

verbeekb
January 24th 2003, 15:17
I vaguely remember something about that Porsche/VW developed one or a few aircooled diesels based on the early engines. I think it was done away with for cooling problems and it was extremely noisy, but I'm really not sure. I wonder what the mechanical stresses, and the results of them, would be with 20:1 CR and such.

Brian

kdanie
January 24th 2003, 17:08
Not all diesels run high compression ratios. I have worked on them with only 9-1 and naturally aspriated too. Not suitable for high performance though. Turbos and lots of pressure make HP in a diesel. I don't think you could modify a type 4 to run on diesel and make more HP or torque than on gas.
ken

Ron Roberts
January 24th 2003, 19:14
Hows about making a deisle that is air cooled? If you can't make aan aircooled into a deisel, maybe the other way around would work.
Ron

Wally
January 25th 2003, 11:55
Like Brian, I also remember from a book that Porsche made a beetle engine in diesel form in the late 1930's and that is was extremely noisy!
Everything can be done though, but sensible it would not be IMO.
BTW Excellent choise on the 1303 from '75 ! (Guess what I drive...)
Later,
Walter

NYBugman1972
January 25th 2003, 14:02
I'd like to see a TDI swap into a bug. That's be cool!

Ephry73
January 27th 2003, 19:18
Porsche made a tractor for farm use, and i believe it was diesel.



E

Oliver Knuf
January 28th 2003, 05:55
Just my 2 cents. My father worked at TDE (Theo Decker Essen, old'n famous German tuner) in the early 70's, who tried to develop a Diesel on an aircooled basis for VW. They started with the head tuning, welding and creating a new combustion chamber. Wtihout gain! They used Mercedes parts, as these were the only parts availabe back then. Bosch developed a lot for MB, but just a few parts were compareable to a Beetle engine.

At first, the main problem is, that you can't raise the compression to such a level, that a diesel has. You'll need a pretty small combustion chamber and a very good piston, that can either dissipate the heat as fast as possible and then sealing the cylinders better, than any other aftermarket piston. The thermic load is around 200°C higher than with a normal petrol burner, air cooling is definitly at it's end even with the best cooling system!
The next fact, why it's not working for a long time is, that either the crank is bad for these aspects, as is the account of bearings for the crank. The load on the bearings is nearly 4th the load, than with a "standard" engine. You'll see damaged crankcases sooner than with a dragster engine. Ask people, who run 13-15:1 c/r in their dragsters, they'll tell you what will happen.

I don't want to say that it's impossible, but I think it's nearly impossible to convert a Type 1, 4 or Type 2 WBX. It'll be possible only, when you develop some very nice new parts, like an impossible 5 bearing crank (for such a boxer engine) and maybe a partially w/c engine/heads.

Superman
January 28th 2003, 07:43
Originally posted by oasis
PS- Installing a water-cooled TDI into a 1303 is not an option for me unless someone can do some pretty good convincing.

Click the link in my signature for my [gas] conversion.

yetibone
January 28th 2003, 08:29
I remember in the mid '80s Volkswagen made a diesel Vanagon.
A fellow I knew had one. I really don't know much about it's engine or drivetrain though. Some things that stick out in my mind about that Vanagon is that it shaked alot when running, was a bit noisy, it was dead slow, (kinda like a 36hp T2) and very unreliable.
Off the subject, it did make a great rolling party platform! Thanks for helping bring back some memories Oasis.

Yetibone

oasis
January 28th 2003, 18:47
Curious.

As far as the water-cooled, petrol-burning Super Beetle: It sure looks nice but as a [mostly] non-do-it-yourselfer, it looks too intimidating to me. On that basis, I am still not convinced.

As far as the diesel Vanagon is concerned, it was offered in the States only in 1982. It, like the water-cooled Vanagons of later years, had an extra grill for the radiator.

I would take issue about the reliability of the Vanagon diesel. I owned a Vanagon and I owned a Rabbit-based Pickup which had the same diesel as was offered on the Vanagon.

Shake, rattle, and roll? Sure. Power? Forget it. Fifty-two HP and 13 would be used if the a/c was turned on. But reliable? That Pickup never let me down (except when the air temps went to 0ºF and the diesel turned to gel).

Now, that diesel was nothing like the TDI I now have. In fact, my wife initially balked as she remembers Pickup less fondly. She called it the "Paint Shaker." She loves the TDI as much as I.

If I were to ever get a Vanagon again, it would be either a stock diesel or a TDI conversion. In many ways, I liked the (gas-powered) Vanagon I had more than the EuroVan Westy I now have. Indeed, the EuroVan's big and, perhaps, only advantage over the Vanagon is highway performance and reliability. A TDI would render that argument in Vanagon's favor as well.

Anyway, interesting responses on my musings of an air-cooled diesel. I learned a lot.

-René