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Oliver Knuf
July 25th 2002, 03:22
Hi dudes!

I'm happy to moderate also this forum and I try to do that, as often as I can. I've read in the description, that also watercooled plants are discussed, for my part, I have to shorten it to the VW Waterboxer, as these conversions are the only ones, that make sense for me. I would'n do rabbit engine conversions or Alfa, but they are common here in Germany. The Type 1 and Type 4 engine conversions 'n tuning is my main deal, so feel free to ask all what you want to know!

TitoRay
July 31st 2002, 14:36
Well, I have a question. If someday I plan on converting to a T-4 motor in my bug, how difficult will it be in terms of engine mount mods and so on? Also, do you recommend buying a used block and rebuilding or purchasing a "new" block and build from there?

Oliver Knuf
August 1st 2002, 04:32
...using an old engine or a new case and start from the very beginning is for me a question of what you want to build. Normal engines, like the 1,7-2,0l engines up to rates of 130-140HP are nothing spectacular and you can use every old engine you find. After propper overhauling and using the right ingredients, you can have fun for years with your "used" engine.

When you plan on building a real top-of-the-tops engine and you want to use all the best goodies, try to find as much new parts as you can, but even then, an old case, that hasn't been in harsh use can be a good start for such an engine. There are some quality differences in cases, that you can get new now and the ones, that exist from the late 60's to the early seventies.

Modding the mounts for your new engine depends also on what you want to have. In most cases, simple modifications, same as done on the Type 1 conversions are useful and exactly that what you need. It depends also, how you want to use the engine. The spectrum is wide spreaded, but be sure, what you want to have, then I can help you how to mod your mounts!

Rouser
August 1st 2002, 16:35
You might want to pop over to ShopTalk Forum's Type 4rum (http://shoptalkforums.com/).

That's all these guys do; drop T-IV's into T-1/2/3's, and the solutions required.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/WavingFlag.gif

Oliver Knuf
August 2nd 2002, 03:26
That's what we do here, too. Sure, the Type 4rum is really nice, but informations are given here, too!

For myself, I can show you common German ways... ...and you're not one of hundreds threads here!

cj011
August 2nd 2002, 04:47
i have been searching high and wide and have come up empty on all fronts. so i will try again, by any chance do you guys and gals have any information about putting subaru heads on a vw flat four engine, yes i know some dont like it, but its just an interest that i have. thanks for any help, chris

Oliver Knuf
August 5th 2002, 04:12
Hm, I've seen the Kerscher conversion with 16-valve-heads on waterboxer-engines, hard stuff. Same is with the so called "overfly" heads from Holzapfel. He uses 911 heads, 2-valve, cutted in half and welded together, cams in heads, belt driven and powerful for a Type 4. In the late 60's and early 70's an engineer called Ludwig Apfelbeck build overcam heads and different designed heads on either the Type 1 and the Type 4. HP ranges in the 100HP per 1000cc's class. Excellent for these times. I'll try to picture some construction sheets, as far as this board accepts the picture upload system.

Alex
August 5th 2002, 07:30
Rouser,

I am pretty sure that you can get all the info you need in this forums as well.
I think having the chance to talk to other competent engine builders that know the field so well is a huge benefit for those seeking advice.

Alex

Rouser
August 5th 2002, 21:50
... was just offering a website recommendation to someone living in The Colonies.

Wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes/forum.

Bye.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/WavingFlag.gif

cj011
August 6th 2002, 04:36
hey thanks guys, i appreciate the replies. just by you folks replying i have probally gotten more info here than from any other place or time.

SilverBullet
August 6th 2002, 15:13
Hi Oliver, good to see you here!:)

vwman1
August 13th 2002, 22:46
Recently a friend of mind mention this waterboxer to AC conversion to me and I am facinated, by the idea. What needs to be done to take a waterboxer to AC? Is it best to use the stock crank for High HP situations? What are the biggest pistons one can use? Do you use Type 4 pistons? Type 4 heads? Six bolts to hold the head on? Thanks

Chas

Oliver Knuf
August 14th 2002, 04:58
I recommend a forged Oettinger or a Scat crank with counterweights for such conversions. You can use remachined Type 4 cylinders or Limbach cylinders (97mm bore, aircooled, German air-technique), even conversions with 101,6mm were seen here. Heads can be get from Limbach (hardenend Type 1 style) with the correct bolt-pattern or you can get fresh casted Street or Competition Eliminators from CB, to get max power out of the engine.
You have to machine away the cooling stuff and even a Type 1 cooling is working with high modifications. At least a good Porsche-style cooling will help!

More?

Rouser
August 14th 2002, 17:12
You can go to ShopTalk Forum's Oxyboxer Page (http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/001001.html&e=42) (once they relocate their server and are back up), or contact Strictly German Autowerks (http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/9008/indexe.html) and have them slice you up a longblock.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/image_uploads/WavingFlag.gif

cj011
August 14th 2002, 23:57
oliver any luck finding those pick about the overhead cam conversion for a vw motor. if your interested, keep an eye on a company named ln engineering. there designer shad laws is currently designing a overhead dohc cam conversion for the type four motor. probally will be out in two years or less.

Oliver Knuf
August 15th 2002, 04:35
Maybe Holzapfel is a known name for you, if not, he builds the "overfly" Type 4 engines, welding together 911 heads to 4-cyl.-specs, belt driven overhead cams on 2.9l Type 4 engines, producing 245 "racetrue" bhp, just for a few customers, who can afford such a beast.
I'll scan the Apfelbeck pictures in, if you're interested.

samcat
August 15th 2002, 06:23
If you could, I would like to see those pictures too :)

Sam C

cj011
August 15th 2002, 06:49
i have heard the name, but not have been to able to really dig up any inoformation about vws in europe, yet but i will definately have to research his name in the next days. If you could spare the time, i would really appreciate if you posted the pics. where i live in hawaii, people here tend to stick only to the cal-look and will not really adventure into different approaches to motor building. so info like this, does not readily come around. thanks and cheers, chris.

Eurolook71
August 25th 2002, 05:07
Oliver-

I was just curious, what is your opinion on C/Wing a 66mm crank?? Its going to be a daily driver, not to be reved over 6000. Would it be needed, or would it be overkill?

Also, I'm wanting quite a bit of torque, and was wondering if I should go with a 1910cc (66X96) or get a 71 crank/rods and step up to a 2056. It would be put on the highway quite a bit though as well, as I am in LA. So far, this is what I've figured, wether to be a 1910, or 2056...

1.8 case
Stock rods, shot-peened, ARP bolts installed
KB Hyper Pistons (96s)
42X34 valves, 8.5:1CR, moderate head work, (de-burred, slight enlarging of ports, nothing too drastic) new seats, cromo retainers, etc...
40 IDFs OR DRLAs
Web-Cam, grind #86 w/ matching lifters
OP DTM cooling system
210 flywheel, stock weight
Mallory UNILITE dizzy (I've heard many GREAT things about this, I refuse NOT to have one!!!)
completely lost for ideas about exaust, BAS maybe.....or something custom???


Thanks for any help you give, it's truly appreciated.

Ephry73
October 17th 2004, 10:39
Eurolook,

I have almost the very same engine, you're talking about. You will not need to C/W the crank, as it is a very stout unit, but I do recomend you get all of the bottom end balanced as one unit(crank, rods, flyewheel and clutch assembly), spend the money there.
The heads will work about the same with just a quality 3 angle grind, and a bit of porting on the exhaust side(you can do this yourself, not much needed, since you're not planning to spin the engine past 6,000RPMS) and you may be able to use the money you saved towards a good exhaust system. Always think of an engine as one unit, and get the pieces accordingly to work in unison. since you want torque, get something like the Web86, or something smaler. Your valves are big enough, not the bigest, but big enough to flow for this size engine.
The mallory unit is definitely recomended, as it will simplify your timing and tuning, while giving you a constant "pulse"

The 1910 is a great engine. I have a different setup, where my camshaft has just a bit more duration than stock, but almost no overlap(turbo grind) and .500" lift(I have smaller valves on the intake)

The DTM is a great unit. Make sure you get all of the surounding tin as well(saves you time and in the end, money too) all of the work is done for you, and it completely seals the engine bay. Get a good quality set of plug wires, and Scirocco Bosch plugs, and you wil be set.

make sure your carbs are jetted propperly and that you have a good quality linkage system. Since you want low down torque, get venturies on the smaller side of the scale, and use the 44IDF Air Velocity stacks with taller intake manifolds(sort of like a ram air effect) The 40's is the perfect size for this engine, trust me.
i would get a ighter flywheel, it's worked for me on a smaller engine.

Hope this helps.



Ephry