Porsche Shroud

[lightning bug]

Who's using one? Do you like it? Pros and cons? Install? I want to use it on my T1 powered Super mainly for more engine bay space as I'm running a turbo and intercooler. Would it be worth it? Is there another oil cooler or do I just rely on an external? Thanks.

[kdanie]

For type 1 engines, they are easy to mount. You will need an external oil cooler/thermostat. Be sure to use a real Porsche alternator, I hear the Golf conversions don't hold up well with the fan thrust.
ken

[dgluyas]

I run a Porsche shroud on my 2332cc type 1. It does run cooler than the original fan setup . It looks a lot nicer too! People say its a bolt on addition. They forget to tell you that there is a reasonable ammount of filing to get them to fit well. Then they must be finished well to look good when painted. As for oil coolers, well I run 2 of them, an external 8 pass cooler mounted under the car after it's been through a finer filter(oberg copy),as well as a t4 upright. I run a "sharpbuilt" kit made here in Australia that has the type-4 oil cooler in the upright position at the back of the shroud so in effect there are two coolers The advantage of the shroud besides looks and more air flow is that there is more room in the engine bay. . The linkages for this kit must be lengthened however. You must get a smaller pulley (5@3/4inch) as the standard diameter pulley spins too quickly and the air "cavitates" like a tornado. Faster is not always better. :haveadrin

[lightning bug]

Thanks fellas! I've also heard of going with the orig. alternator as opposed to the Golf. Space is mainly what I need to fit my piping, but I don't want to sacrifice cooling. The info's appreciated. Thanks.

[Alex]

Okay guys...you got me worried now with my golf alternator. They have been using those in Germany for quite a while and every shroud now comes with them.

Oliver........how bad are they?

Alex

[Oliver Knuf]

Is it rubbish to say that? Did anybody test that or are that just rumours, spread by the faboulous internet to you?

No, it's not true. The sideload of an original rabbit alternator is very similar to the load of a pulley on a Type 4 engine. If you think of running a belt over the alt, waterpump and crank makes a rabbit alt running as hard. When do you change your bearings on your rabbit? Every 10kmiles? Examples: Ahnendorp produces the system for nearly 15 years, Knuf produces another bolt-on system for nearly 8 years, MSS runs their systems, sold through Custom & Speed Parts for nearly 5 years. There's even an exchange-kit, where you can build a rabbit alt into a Porsche ring, that is also available for a decade.

Is it possible, that they are all wrong and they produce all cheap crap?

[Alex]

Okay....I can relax then.

Alex

[DORIGTT]

If I recall correctly, the argument wasn't that the side loads (vertical when looking at the assembly on the engine) were too great. The problem was with the longitudinal forces imposed on the bearings of the Golf alternators. The Porsche fan apparently is capable of imposing some pretty substantial side loads in the form of thrust (in and out when looking at the assembly on the engine) which possibly could cause the Golf alternator to die prematurely.

The fan at speed is supplying enough volume to cool a high performance 6 cylinder air-cooled engine. One would only assume that it pulls the air into itself in order to force it over the cylinders. That pulling effect would be able to apply alot of force.

What do you gals/guys think?



To err is human, but if the eraser (rubber if you're English) wears out before the pencil, you're overdoing it.

[lightning bug]

I've compared both the CSP and the system offered by aircooled.net and it seems that aircooled has the better buy. Where could I check out the PTP one as seen in the galleries. Is that something that someone could purchase? Also would a 12X12 oil cooler with a fan and thermostat be enough? I'll also be using a dry sump. Thanks.

[Alex]

I thought that aircooled.net actually sells the PTP shrouds and not the CSP ones.

Alex

[kdanie]

I would not question Oliver, if the watercooled alts. are used in Germany with no problems then I would trust them. I think the U.S. VW scene is very reluctant to accept change and will make assumptions (that soon are preceived as fact) to back up their reluctance. Fortunately those of us that are in the GL scene are more open minded to things new to us!

Lightning bug, I think a 12X12 cooler w/fan would take care of the oil in most any engine. Be sure to run a thermostat with that cooler so you don't overcool the oil.

Maybe we should compile a list of myths perpetuated by the U.S. VW engine people.......
Golf vs. Porsche alternators (Golf alts. will not hold up to a Porsche fan)
VW vs. Porsche cooling fan (Porsche fans will overcool)
engines over 96mm bore are a bad thing
it's hard to make over 160hp reiliably with a type4
type 4s are slow
type 4s are for torque, type 1s are for hp. (a type 1 with an 82mm stroke will out torque a 71mm stroke type 4, if they both have the same 94mm bore, it's all in the configuration!)
I'm sure there are more I could think of with a little more time....

ken

[lightning bug]

Again, thanks fellas. There certainly are alot of myths and heresay on the net. You see alot of them proven wrong right here on this forum because people here actually apply the parts and post the results. This is actually the only forum I use. I use the Vortex (I also have 2 GTI's) every so often, but I get aggrivated with all of the "experts" and have to log off. So keep up the good work fellas.

[wallace lee]

i am new to the forum........hi.

just saw this post prior to the one i first replied.
regarding the Golf alternator issue, the best would be feedbacks from guys who has been using this for quite a while.

I read about this from Jake Raby's forum, and i don't think he is full of bull**** and is experienced enough...he must have done some sort of testing although i cannot elaborate on this.

I however, have not heard of any failures with the Golf Alt with the Porsche fan.

[Massive Type IV]

What I say is based on experience, and broken parts,thats all.

My time is money. Do you think I would look all over the ends of the earth for genuine Porsche fan and alternator assemblies, rebuild the alternators, bead blast and polish the housings, and source a fan shroud from Australia if I could buy one kit that is brand new and would bolt in with half the work???

I do this for a reason, and so does FAT performance, they know the truth too.

No BS here, listen or not, you won't see them on engines with my serial numbers.

[wallace lee]

Jake,
when you say rebuild alternators, what is actually involved in rebuilding the Porsche alternators? changing the bearings?bushes?

My 964 Carrera fan assembly looks to be in good condition even the alternator.

[Massive Type IV]

They normally would pass without rebuilding, even some that are 30 years old are just fine....but I don't feel right just slapping them on. I change the bearings, and brushes and clean them well.

[Oliver Knuf]

I don't want to start a deeper discussion about that, but I have to say, that there are many German tuners out, me included, enough British tuners, all the customers of the MSS based fan systems, of our systems, of Ahnendorp's systems, that have the opinion, that a rabbit alt can hold over the same distance with the same loads. I don't know, how many systems are in the US available and even how many you tested, Jake, but your words should be of a very deep opinion, you have to have a long test period with all those conversions to stay with this one-sided opinion! I count more alternators here, where Porsche stands on and rubbish is inside, because all the alt parts you can get are old or even older. Even the so-called overhauled alts from well-known firms like Bosch, here are of a bad quality. Think also into the future, it is even for us hard to locate spare parts for the Porsche alts, in a few years you will only get the spares on swap meets. Rabbit alts will stay a longer time in the business and work as good.