stange type 4 big bore kit..?

[elroocky]

hello guy's we have found an old NOS kit of cylinders and pistons in diameter 100mm, but without precise mark, the kit is made for 66mm crankshaft and boring is 99,98mm. the boring is flat but renforced out of matter to make release in the pistons for the valves (just for 2 valves)
the cylinder is lined cast iron with an aluminum envelope. the pistons are just located by "UP91" and a code "FF" on the side.

the pistons look like wiseco, short skirt and are released around the sides of the axes, the axes its in 24mm
does somebody knows something more than us about this kit..? factory.? a name.? built by who..?

thanks for help

david

[SilverBullet]

Hi Elroocky, a bit off the topic but is Remmelle still around? Last I heard he is relocating! By the way, what is the size and et of your rear wheels and the fender size? :)

[elroocky]

hello silver bull :D

check ou on my ride, all information are on it, rim's are 10,5x18 and 9,5x18 with + 4cm and + 5cm on rear..

remmele is back,and opened in germany again he rang me a few week's ago, he is near "bürt" in a small town, it's very near the french border. (around 12 miles)

I dont have the adresse and phone with me, I will drop you that tonight, when I'll be back at home..

david

[yetibone]

Elroocky, regarding your original post, I belive that 20-odd years ago that SCAT or Empi made some 100mm alusil or nikisil cylinders but didn't continue production due to such small demand for those parts.

The way you described yours, it sounds like they're Biral cylinders. I'm not sure if SCAT or Empi made any of those, but they would be likely candidates for their manufacture.


I hope this helps.

[elroocky]

it's for shure a Biral kit, main cylinder is cast iron with envelope aluminum, it rather light and lighter than an 94mm original cyl/piston, and it is clear that it is not recent, except that nothing does not make it possible to identify it. I will make photographs and drop them on the site.

Even on the seals, nothing appears, nothing on the piston axis.. or what ever..

[elroocky]

here are 2 pics, that maybe will help..

the iron cast cylinder is very thick, would be very easy to modified and get in a 103mm piston

does anybody have any informations..?

david

[Wally]

Hi david,
Very cool kit! Nice find indeed.
Sorry, never came across them.
Greetings,
Walter

[elroocky]

well very cool is a big word, that make's a 2074cc on a 66mm crank or 2230cc on a 71, but, I dont know if there is a change to get any spares in the future... where to get new seal, gaskets or what ever..?

david

[Wally]

well very cool is a big word, that make's a 2074cc on a 66mm crank or 2230cc on a 71, but, I dont know if there is a change to get any spares in the future... where to get new seal, gaskets or what ever..?

david
The cylinders look long enough to see if a longer stroke would be possible within those cylinders :)
Also these birals are ideal for a turbo-project. Think further. Seals, gaskets you would have to let them make :(

Good luck with them! (unless you want to sell them on, then call me)
Greetings,
Walter

[elroocky]

well wally? I'm going to have a try first.. before salling them :laugh: for seals, no prob, I have an adress where they can provide them, all style all dimensions, a friend give me it yesturday, I feel more confident with it now.. :D

more informations..? all are welcomed

wally, what would you do with that kit? ( with turbocharged type 4) and infos..? a precise engine chart.?

[starmember]

It looks like a Nippon but i`m not sure. :confused:

[Wally]

wally, what would you do with that kit? ( with turbocharged type 4) and infos..? a precise engine chart.?
Not sure what the set exactly is, but it would make for a fine cool riding engine for my daily squareback :)

No problem, its just a possibility.

Greetings,
Walter

[Ephry73]

I would use a 76mm stoke crank with that, or just the 66mm. Looks like a great find, and if you ever need to get RID of them, please let me know. ;)


Great, great find.



E

[elroocky]

it look's like everebody is starting to love this "middle size boring kit". :D and forget it :laugh: no way... :p

I'll have a try on a 66x100, that could be an excellent 2074cc for my next toy as a 914 to replace the old 1971cc...

I'm looking forward for a chart , I need to see..

[mikko k]

Hello everybody. I had about 10 years ago from Scat just like the same set. The piston were lower for longer stroke, but cylinders seem to be alike. Something happened to the set in my friends car, but I don't remember what! I still might have some cylinders in my store.

[cnavarro]

There are a few possible outcomes of what could have happened to your friends set of scat birals, all related to the differing coefficients of expansion between the iron liner and aluminum cooling fins. Porsche had issues with the aluminum separating / falling off from the cylinders in high load / extended load situations. Primarily heat soak is your worse enemy. If the cylinder gets too hot, it just gets hotter, and hotter. You get the point. This is a point I've debated with the greatest minds in the 356/912 arena. The conclusion we have come to, is for a stock, or slightly hotter than stock application, birals are great, as they will provide better cooling, head sealing, and generally, longer cylinder life than a comparable cast iron cylinder. On a personal note, I would say to take advantage of the longer cylinder and add some more stroke. As long as the birals hold together (a big IF), they should be able to cool about 180 horses reliably (again from testing data from our own version of birals). A good cooling system will help greatly, say a DTM, to keep the aluminum in it's place!

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[elroocky]

So charles,

what's your final conclusion regarding my Iron cast/ alu 100mm kit found, is ift clearly a good kit to work on... or just something to ban and forget...?

david

[cnavarro]

I think it's a solid starting point, and with it's nice thick walls, i'd leave it at 100mm. Believe it or not, I have plans on file for a 100mm biral, as we figured that was the so-called limit we thought should be imposed on such a cylinder. I figure something in the 150 HP tune should live 100,000 miles, if done right with those cylinders. Bump it up to 180ish, and you might get 50,000 miles, but with increased maintainence and slightly reduced reliability. For longevity, maybe something in the 100 x 74 range would be good, but a 100 x 71 sounds just as appealing to me, since with the right cam, it will make good torque and be both cheap to build and will last over 100,000 miles in proper tune. What kind of cooling system are you planning on running?

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[elroocky]

I using a BAS porsche fan kit, the base is a 914 1800cc I've got actually under cover in my "work shop" the main part to build that engine
that's my chart:

66mm crankshaft counterweight welded @ BAS, reduced and polished rods @ minus 120g, camshaft 316 schleicher, light push rods from webcam , cylinder heads 1800 with original valves with channels just improved and aligned with a set of kN and 44IDF and a 914 flying with from a 914 with weight taken of

that's what I'm thinking about, it should go un a 914 ...

[Wally]

Hey David,
What's with the BAS stuff? I thought you were a Remmele customer :rolleyes:
Actually, I quite like the Remmele shroud, as its very shallow just behind the fan, thus bounching more air to the front (2 and 4) cylinders.

Greetings,
Walter

[elroocky]

nothing special with BAS or remmele, this engine I am rebuilding is an very old 1911cc that I've done for on of my bettle in 1993, and i've opened the engine to make a check up after 85000 km because he was burning a sone oil.., and that 100mm kit came over, at this periode remmele was unknowed from me.. and the only parts availeble on the french market was BAS. and actually all the BAS parts I have are still in very good conditions, so with should I not use them again.. I dont need to spend any money on that one.. a cheap rebuilt engin.. :D

david

[Ephry73]

How was the performance of the 1911? i am working on one of those myself right now to put in the back of my Ghia.



E

[elroocky]

well difficult to explain... but good to kick a few water pumper at the red light, the engine was on a 8x33 tranny on a simple vw mainly stock, could manage to take 6500rpm without any problem, and take around 5800rpm on 4th gear on road I think there was around 115/120hp on that engin, and it was very interresting between 2500 and 4800 rpm.. no problem until 60000 K until a valve seat dropped, and around 85000 the seals were week..

that all, but mainly a good engin, I was satisfied..with it

david

[Ephry73]

I was hoping to hear that. That is exactly wha I want out of this engine. I do have a turbo camshaft in it, and hpefully one day get a decent turbocharger in it.


Thanks,



Ephry

[mikko k]

Charles (and othets)

I remember now what happend to my friends set. It was less dramatic, only 1 piston pin locker fell off and the pin hit the cylinder wall and it start to leak. Pistons were sold to some other projekt, they didn't harmed and the broken cylinder were test bored to 4" to see if the set would be usefull that way. We haven't used those ever since. 4" bore makes wall too thin, only about 3mm, if I remember right. Not for daily use.