Engine selection, and why go type 4???

[BeetleTwinTurbo]

My origional idea has been trashed, and i'm lookin to start from the black board again. I'm in the middle of engine selection. I was thinking of a rotary, but everyone tells me that it will be to hard to run the lines for the rad, then I was thinking of type 1, cause it can be ready in like 1-4 weeks, then I was thinking of turbo or not, but as I've learned, people say that if you go turbo, you have to remove the engine lid, or space it out or what ever, I dont like that look.

so I guess its back to the old type 1 vs type 4, but heres the thing.

I dont really understand the differences between the 2, and why would a 2600cc(just an example) be better than a semi-full tilt 2332cc?

thanx

[Massive Type IV]

Longevity and plenty of power with a wide powerband are traits of the TIV..

If you want haul ass 1/4 mile power use a TI engine, even I have a 2332 TI in my thrash car, its a 222.7BHP animal @ 8500RPM, it won't pull below 4500 RPM, gets 10MPG, will live about 30 passes before its toast BUT IT HAULS ASS!

As for TIV engines, every car I own has one, I have had everything from 1800-2613cc engines in my test car, drove hours one way and never opened the decklid.

Absolutely without a doubt a 2270cc TIV engine is the best engine for a German looker that needs 140+ BHP,we can make 160 all day and have made 185, totally reliable, smooth idle, and power from 2500-6500RPM.Very few aftermarket parts are used in this combo, and thats a GOOD thing.

Its not the engine that you choose, but the configuration and way it is built that makes it or breaks it (literally)

If you really want 250HP be planning on spending the same amount on either a TI or TIV engine. 200HP in a beetle is crazy, most people would be afraid to use the power. with my 222BHP I won't drive it on a damp or cold road the power is almost uncontrolable, its not good on the street at that level.

[Sandeep]

Ya,

What Jake said.

I chose a type 4 after months and months of debating back and forth over which powerplant to use. My car is going to be a daily driver, but I want some hard track time (road race) as well.

THE THREE BIGGEST reasons I chose a type 4 is because 1). You are using a minimal amount of aftermarket parts to get 150hp, 2). The type 4 cools MUCH better in upright configuration than a stock type 1, and 3). The Type 4 (914 GA engine like the one I have) makes 95hp STOCK vs a 46hp Type 1.

In about a year, I'm going to get a 2270cc engine built by Jake... but by then, my car is going to be converted to a 'Road Race Only' vehicle...so I may go bigger ! We will see.

Sandeep

[zen]

sandeep and i are in the same boat. i just picked up a GA TIV for the same reasons. i don't know that i will be doing much racing, but i want a strong, but realiable, street car. i will run stock save adding carbs, exhast and dist, until this engine is done. pull it and throw my T1 back in while this one becomes a 2270cc.

number one reason for me is having the powerband starting at a street usable state of 2500rpm. i can't stress the value of that more. you can pass on a two lane without dropping two gears to be in the right powerband. you can jump into traffic easier. and you have a smoother powerband instead of the on/off of some T1s.

[Andy White]

Has anyone heard of the Type 1 Hi-Po Aluminium case? They are made in Brazil by a company called Auto-Linea and have been put through their paces in several race cars and rails with outstanding reviews. I have been told that a well built Type 1 motor with this kind of case will be just as strong and reliable as its Type 4 counterpart for street application upto 2.3ltrs and 200BHP. It also works out a lot cheaper and offers more tuning options. This is the advice I have had from a couple of specialist VW tuners in the U.K. They all say you don't have to go Type 4 for reliable street performance, so why does everyone here favour the Type 4?

Regards,

Andy.

[Massive Type IV]

I favor a TIV because I build them both, drive them both and see which ones cause me more problems.

The auto linea case is aftermarket, thats the problem. I have micced one and found the thrust deck too low from the factory, cylinder spigots out of center, distributor pinions not bored straight or the correct size,uneven case decks by .035 and the list goes on.

Not to mention the fact that the cases have a "NON THROUGH BOLT" design that seriously reduces their strength. A TIV engine is a factory performance engine. Any engine that starts out as 100BHP is one hell of alot safer to make 200BHP in performance trim, than an engine that starts out with 48-52hp before mods.

TI engines suffer from crappy specifications, an aftermarket that absolutely sucks and is full of money hogs that build junk just to make something shine, or make it appear to be "Gold plated" in a magazine ad.

Porsche chose the TIV engine for the 914 and 912E for a reason, you never see TI engines in road race cars, guess why??? Yet I build TIV engines that turn 7K for 40-50 second blasts down the back straights at road race courses and they last for literally years.....

If you want to drive the car, and drive long distances with good MPG, cool running temps, a powerband that loves to run 90MPH all day, and does not break everyday, buy a TIV. If you don't mind working on the engine all the time, want big power for the 1/4 mile, don't care about driving 200+ miles one way all the time, then buy a TI and have fun.

VW and Porsche are the only 2 cars I own, the newest one besing my 76' 912E, I drove 38,000 miles last year in aircooled cars, some of them as old as 40 years....I have nothing else and all of them are TIV powered except one, and it's a 222.7BHP animal that is used for drag racin only.

[Andy White]

Hi MassiveTypeIV,

I am in the process of building a no expense spared '55 oval show/street car. I want an engine and gearbox for reliability and awesome street performance. If I was to take the TIV route, 2.3 - 2.4, fuel injection, engine management, air induction box, Porsche cooling, 200BHP ish , turn-key with 5 Speed gearbox, new alternator, exhaust and ancillaries, etc. how much would it cost me? I have been quoted £8,000 (pounds sterling) for the T1, same specs.

Cheers,

Andy

[Massive Type IV]

shoot me an email to jake@aircooledtechnology.com as these forums are not for discussing money (I have gotten in trouble before:-)

an engine of that caliber is no toy, and is a pain to build, as a matter of fact I'll only do one per year, I' finishing one now, and next years was just ordered last week.

[Oliver Knuf]

Btw, you can also ask Oliver.Knuf@powertuningparts.de to get a wide variety of engines between 1,7-2,9l Type 4 or hi-po Type 1 engines, all one-off build for the customer with German high quality products and yes, I can discuss money but I was on holidays! :silly: Now I'm back and can give you detailed answers on all your needs!

[greenterbo]

If I were to look into getting a type IV engine running what vehicle is prefered? I heard vans and 911's. I assume Porsche engines will cost more. What years am I looking for? These engines bolt up to a TI IRS?:confused:

[vujade]

they come from VW 411 & 412....Buses & Porsche 914's

I have heard that 411, 412 & 914 are the most desirable motors.
914 motors are going to cost the most


I type 4 converted to upright configuration will bolt right up to a type 1 tranny using the correct flywheel

[greenterbo]

What is a 411/412? a Thing in the USA? Would a TIV bus 1800cc work? They guys I am speaking to are asking "why the heck do you want to use a type four rather than a type one?"

[Supa Ninja]

GreenTerbo
Check out this website
http.//home.att.net/~NEXTGEN/
it should answer some of your TIV questions.

[vujade]

Green Terbo


A 411 & 412 are a later model VW that look similar to a squareback & fastback with strut front ends & type 4 motors like a bus or 914

[vujade]

a thing is a type 181

[greenterbo]

Oh! Thank you. Yeah duh I forgot the type 181 is the (ugly) Thing. I will research some more. Thanks!

[greenterbo]

Called the local Porsche wrecking yard and he has a running 75 2.0L for around a $1000, does that sound good? More questions I know but I am learning to asks questions before I go out and purchase. I have changed my mind so many times my head is spinning!

[zen]

assuming the engine is in good shape, that is a fair price. about what i spent on my supposedly running '73 914 2.0l. we will see if it was worth it in a couple of months.

[Pillow]

FWIW in the soon to be '56 Oval addition I plan on T4 power, granted after a lot of thought and meditation. (Plus some historical perspective about the car leans the karma that way)

The smooth power and reliability are real plusses for the T4.

And it helps that I have loads of T4 crap already sitting in my basement :)

Still on the fence over a 1911 (rev monster and ultra cheap parts in case of fragmenting :) ), or a mild 2056 or 1971 (stock 2.0).

Probably NextGen conversion, but maybe DTM. Running Dell 40s.

Take Care,