Let There Be Brakes!!!

[volkdent]

I'm starting on the brakes now. I already have the RPI Equipped!(now defunked) Wilwood DynaLight 4 pots for the rear, as I got the whole kit for cost, and for the front I'm thinking another set of those or maybe some 6 pots? (I know, I know, Lazylongboarder is wearing off on me) but I can get them for cost as well so why not?

Anyway, today I purchased this Wilwood pedal assembly. It's reverse mount so I hope to be able to make it work, but I really need to have the pedals in my hand to fit them. I got them for $160 plus about $13 in shipping from Ebay, and Wilwood lists them for over $200 w/o shipping, so I'm feeling OK about that.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/246088.jpg

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

So lay out the design plan... reverse mount? you gonna hang'em? or try to adapt to a floor mount? resevoirs inside or outside?
I've seen some really cool pics of race cars done both ways. Gonna be sooo cool!


Jeff-

[volkdent]

Hang reverse mount. I'm going to fab up a bracket that attaches to stock points and I'll have to drill a couple more. Remote reservoirs under the hood. Brake bias bar with remote adjustment for now, and if I need it an adjustable proportioning valve to the rear. These pedals are the shortest ones they have with a 5.1/1 ratio. I asked Wilwood and they said for our little cars that ratio should be fine, and it gives me a little more space for pedal travel. I really don't know if those pedals with fit until I get them there, but they are just over 10" long at their longest, so I think that should fit under the steering column. We'll see!


What about T's for the system, should I just use the stock T's or is there something else I should look at?

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

The only thing I've ever seen with hard lines are those brass or aluminum block style... pick up a Street Rodder mag at the newstand, there are several companies listed that do nothing but brake hardware.
I'm in the process of upgrading a few things on the bus myself. Nothing as glamourus as your stuff, changing over to dual circuit M/C and adding a bias valve... are you planning to use the knob style or lever?


Jeff-

[volkdent]

... are you planning to use the knob style or lever?


Jeff-

That's a little personal isn't it? I think knob, from what I understand it's infinitely adjustable while the lever has detents, but I could be wrong. According to the Wilwood guys, I should only get the proportioning valve if the bias bar isn't enough adjustment.

What sort of ends do those steel lines need anyway? I heard SS lines have to use some special pressed end or something. I havn't had any experience with brake system construction, just OEM type replacement.

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Educate me a little... bias bar means you have independent cylinder and resevoir for the front and rear and the bar limits pressure on one or the other?
Pressed end? Not sure about that either. They do have a specific flare (degree amount) on the ends but that's all I was aware of...
It would be really cool looking if you could use braided everywhere but of course that's a big no-no and a wee bit pricey. :(



Jeff-

[bean_8044]

you can buy a good flaring/bending tool for less than $100 from most places

[volkdent]

Educate me a little... bias bar means you have independent cylinder and resevoir for the front and rear and the bar limits pressure on one or the other?

Jeff-

Yeah, there's a bar that runs between the front and rear master cylinders. On the bar is the sliding linkage. You can get a remote adjuster that is a knob that when twisted, will pull or push the linkage along the bar. It adjusts the pressure that each master cylinder sees.

Hopefully, if I select the right master cylinders, I won't need to get the proportioning valve, and just the balance bar will be enough to dial it in.

"you can buy a good flaring/bending tool for less than $100 from most places"

I've got a couple of benders already, but I don't have a flaring tool. I've also heard there are specific flares for specific situation ie the angles, so I'm going to have to do a little research before I can get it done.

Jason

[tommi_nylund]

Which master cylinders you will use??

Wilwood´s or something else??

[volkdent]

Wilwood is saying 1" diam. for front and rear for the master cylinders and then the balance bar in the pedal assembly for tuning. I will probably not go 6 piston, as they are almost twice as heavy as the Dynalite 4 pot. If the Dynalites on the rear have 1 3/8" pistons, I'll be using 1 5/8 pistons on the front, but I have to reasearch as to what I actually have in the rear right now, they came as part of a kit I ordered and I don't know exactly what they are.


http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/247659.jpg

Jason

[rip]

volksdent

I resently did a wilwood triple firewall setup seen here

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/MyBug/DCAM0452.jpg~original

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/MyBug/DCAM0451.jpg~original

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/MyBug/DCAM0449.jpg~original

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/MyBug/DCAM0453.jpg~original


2nd gen Rx7 4 pots up front
single piston ford tarus sliders in the back

using 3/4 front mc
and 7/8 rear mc

also using 7/8 clutch mc

people say to use a 3/4 clutch mc but it was still a bit of movment I like the 7/8" better

oh and btw the last pic was without the pedals adjusted.

[rip]

oh yea also I made up a excel spreadsheet similar to the one tiltons uses to calculate the mc sizing if you want me to run some numbers lets me know.

I would need things like those in the attachment

many of the things I've already figured like pedal force and the measurements of the pedal assembly.

but tire size and specs on the brake calipers are definately needed.

let me know
rip

[rip]

some samples of the outputs

[volkdent]

Thanks for the info!

Are you going to build a false floor to get your feet up as high as the pedals are? I was just checking out the Stasis Engineering Speed Touring Car A4, and they did just that with some aluminum.

One way or the other, it looks like your going to have to get your clutch and brake pedals near your gas pedal. What is your plan with that?

I might have some time today to try to position those pedals today and see how they'll work. I'm going to be using remote reservoirs to make fluid access easier.

Jason

[rip]

actually with the new seats in the pedals arn't that bad, i'm pretty tall with 12.5 size shoe.

but I was toying with the idea of simply extending the pedal surface a little bit lower. this is easier than the false floor. Not to mention ever try to get into a bug with a false floor? not to easy for taller guys. the steering wheel hits the legs when getting in.

But please keep us posted I was thinking of getting the reverse swing wilwood pedals but thought it would interfer with the steering column too much, that they would hit too low on the foot, and push the pedals too close to the driver. not to mention it seems like you have to build a semi cage to hold them. if you already got a cage no problem, but needless to say a few little things were discouraging me with that setup.

The problem with the firewall setup is like you mentioned the hieght. but if you build new pedals and just use the mount for the mc. you can increase the pedal ratio and drop them further. just gotta rethink the mc size then. but its all fun.

rip

[volkdent]

Here's the A4 racers pedal assembly with the 4" false floor below it. The driver is back a bit to help weight balance of the car.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/250358.jpg

Here's the reverse swing pedal assembly in position. It sits just a bit lower than the stock pedals, a position I prefer. I'm using my M3 pedal positions as a reference, and they are just about the same.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/250359.jpg

Here's the stock MkIII VW clutch MC after I removed the studs.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/250360.jpg

I had to grind off one of the mounting posts on the base for the pedal assembly. This area is where the assembly is right up next to the steering column. Everything just fits!

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/250361.jpg

[volkdent]

This is the clutch MC in position

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/250362.jpg

I may be using 2 of these guys to mount the assembly to the steering column. I might make a bracket that welds to these. There will also be a lateral load arm to preven the entire works for spinning on the steering shaft.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/250363.jpg

I talked to Wilwood again today. I'll be using 7/8ths MCs front and rear, the rear calipers are 1.38" diameter pistons and the fronts will be 1.75" diameter pistons. Those should be ordered up this week.

Jason

[rip]

other than the lateral support to prevent the twisting on the steering column, got any other supports?

me and some friends were talking about it awhile back, and because the top and bottom support of the steering column is supported between rubber grommets, we felt that this wouldn't be too sturdy. it may also fatigue crack

Not to mention in a moment of panic you can produce about 1.5 times your body weight at the brake pedal. I'm not sure that the steering column may be the best place to mount it.

have you seen these?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/temp/tilton_bug_04.jpg~original

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/temp/tilton_bug_03.jpg~original

may be more work but it will hold any shear and moment forces. plus you can make it adjustable

[volkdent]

With the rack and pinion steering I have now the steering column is solidly mounted on the bottom, and I think I'll use the same bracket up top to solid mount as well. As long as the brackets and bolts are strong enough, I don't think the steering column will have any trouble with the loads. As long as it is relatively solid, I really like the idea of failure points too. When things are too overbuilt they stand up to an accident while you don't. It will be braced laterally enough to deal with any rotational forces, and the longitudinal load on that strong steering column tubing shouldn't create any troubles there. Also, because they are brackets, the whole assembly can be slid up and down the steering column to make the pedal assembly position adjustable as well!

Jason

[volkdent]

After much head scratching I think I came up with the most simple, lightweight, and straightforward way to mount this thing. I made the bracket out of light guage square tubing. Grade 8 nuts, bolts, and washers were used. The washers extend to the edge of the square tubing to resist it being squashed. I'll have to weld in crush tubes if I have any trouble.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251246.jpg

There are 3 sets of holes so the pedal assembly can be adjust 2 inches forward or back. Note how offset the passenger side mounting bolt hole is at the end. It's over and forward that far because if it were centered the bolt would be going through a stiffening pleat in the body instead of the flat section.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251247.jpg

I had to step the front down a bit to clear the base. The front will have some sort of support to close the ends of the square tubing and attach the front of the support bracket to the area under the dash, but I'll wait till the MCs come and are installed.
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251248.jpg

[volkdent]

Here it is mounted. Only 2 bolts are holding it in right here, up against the front bulkhead. The bolts run through the flat areas right next to where the vertical bulkhead meets the angled underdash area. Should be a very strong point, and the forces are spread through the bolts AND by the bracket just butting up against the bulkhead.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251249.jpg

I did just a little more grinding on the pedal frame so it would fit up snug against the steering column

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251250.jpg

Here are the two bolts. Sorry they are too long, but I had planned on a thicker backing plate that I ended up not really needing. I'll get the correct length ones later.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251251.jpg

[volkdent]

Here are the two bolts in the trunk area. As you can see, the sheet metal is quite well supported by the bulkhead here. I used large grade 8 washers to spread the load a little.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251252.jpg

The pedal position turned out EXACTLY where I wanted it. I used the M3 as a reference so I think it should work our really well.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251253.jpg

I may have to grind a little off of the side of the brake pedal. I have wide feet, and there is very little room between the brake pedal and the shifter hump. Just trimming off the right side of the brake pedal should allow adequate clearance for the throttle pedal and should make for great heel/toe action. The guy that is making my throttle pedal it heading to the Daytona 24hr race, so that will be a little bit before it gets here.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251254.jpg
Jason

[bean_8044]

lookin good :agree:

[Racelook]

You're not afraid that it will bend the sheet metal where the bracket is mounted by hard braking?? Or that there will be "movement" in the bracket by hard braking?

Wiebrand

[jonas_linder]

If I where you I would add two bolts in the "other" end of the bracket, all the load would "twist" the two "bottom" bolts that you got now.

Sorry if you don't understand me, I'm from Sweden you know ;)

edit. Btw, your build is BADASS :D

[volkdent]

If you guys read the captions for the pictures, you'll read that it's not finished. This thing will be PLENTY strong. No flexing, no bending. The pictures are just to show the location and type of bracket that is fabricated. The point is that with only 2 bolts this thing is in position, and with the addition of one more bracket, you can install aftermarket pedals by only drilling a couple of bolt holes instead of hacking out half the dash.

I think what is kind of cool is that the remote balance bar adjuster will work so well there as well. When all is said and done I'll fabricate a cover so all the brake system guts aren't exposed.


Jason

[jonas_linder]

I've read almost everything you have posted about the car and have no doubts that this will be as good as the others!

Just pointed it out ;)


ps. I read all of it and must have missed that it still was under construction :sleep: ds.

[Racelook]

I also had read everything.. but Then just overread it..

WHOOPS... :rolleyes:

WIebrand

[volkdent]

No problem! I'm glad to have some good guys like you to keep an eye on me! It's nice to know I can't screw up too bad before someone will let me know. Keep up the good work!

Jason

[starmember]

^^better save then sorry. :laugh:

but it looks not convertible to brake like that but i can be wrong

[volkdent]

I think something must be getting lost in the Babblefish translation. Maybe I should just be posting the finished product and not the build up.

IT IS NOT FINISHED. When it is done it will be very safe and very strong.

Jason

[rip]

looking good

just an idea instead of going up to the dash again for the front mount maybe mount it into the wheel wells. a lateral bar spaning the two. this way if you wanted you can make it double as a shelf like cover it with one of the bambo/straw shelfs = very sleeper :)

[volkdent]

looking good

just an idea instead of going up to the dash again for the front mount maybe mount it into the wheel wells. a lateral bar spaning the two. this way if you wanted you can make it double as a shelf like cover it with one of the bambo/straw shelfs = very sleeper :)


I really like that idea, but as you can see from the pics I've got speaker pods in there that I really don't want to have to redu. As well, the bar would be a definate shin breaker in a severe accident, and would also be a heck of a lot heavier and require more holes to be drilled. I do think if I had a full cage that is EXACTLY what I'd do though.

I got these high strength stainless T-bolt clamps from a local hydrolics place. I'm planning on using both of them on the steering column to clamp a bracket onto it. I should have the whole thing done this weekend, so look for some new pics then.

Jason

[volkdent]

Finally figured out what sort of bracket would be the lightest, easiest, and strongest.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/252563.jpg

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/252565.jpg

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/252566.jpg

Jason

[volkdent]

I got a little carried away with the weldling, as I havn't got the MCs in there yet and there may be a small clearance issue. It's possible I'll have to do just a regular piece of bar, not the one with the fancy holes, as there may need to be some grinding to clear the MC.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/252567.jpg

Here's the J-bolt clamps. Apparently these are very strong and I'm using 2 just in case one were to fail.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/252570.jpg

Jason

[jonas_linder]

Looks great Jason! :agree:

[starmember]

nice solution. :agree:

[volkdent]

Finally got the master cylinder. Was supposed to get 2, but as usual there was an order mix up. But I was able to install it and I JUST have enough clearance between the MC and the bracket.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/261899.jpg

These are the rotors I'm planning on using. Just over 12" in diameter and .83" thick.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/261900.jpg

Here is the new MC at home.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/261903.jpg

Jason

[Mikey]

Superb quality. :cool:

Keep the updates coming.

[beetle1303]

Really nice looking... One question though

Is it going to be legal with the M/Cs there? I believe its a safety matter thats why im asking. In Europe this would make the car illegal, since the driver can hurt himself ( that would be by impact on the knee area during an accident) on some part of the vehicle ie extruding parts from the under dash


Chris

[volkdent]

Really nice looking... One question though

Is it going to be legal with the M/Cs there? I believe its a safety matter thats why im asking. In Europe this would make the car illegal, since the driver can hurt himself ( that would be by impact on the knee area during an accident) on some part of the vehicle ie extruding parts from the under dash


Chris

Interestingly enough, the safety was the very first question I worried about when I had the idea of the reverse mount. I'm not exactly thrilled with the location. I'm going to be putting a cover over the whole thing that has foam in it but quite honestly, if I'm hitting something hard enough that I'm getting near that with my knees, I've probably got some other problems as well. Bugs aren't exactly safety icons, and I'm not planning on changing that too much, but I'm hoping that the fact that I'll be able to out-brake and out-handle any other bug on the road will put me up a notch in the safety department compared to a stock bug.

Jason

[zeroaxe]

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/252565.jpg

Jason

Good job on the install! Plenty of ideas to be had here. I was just wondering if the mount would not flex on either of the front corners with your fancy bracket in the middle? I would wonder if it might've been a little better to have two thinner (fancy)brackets extending from the corners of the front of the bracket towards the steering column?

Then again, that assembly might be MUCH stronger than what it looks like in the pictures ;) :D

Just my €0-02 :p

[volkdent]

I know it looks a little fragile, but it is in fact very strong. Though it doesn't look it, it's actually triangulated in three dimensions. The rotational forces that would be controlled by the "fancy brackets" are already being handled by the back 2 edges of the frame and the front single bracket is only left to handle vertical forces. The pedal assembly itself actually strengthens the whole thing too. I've stood on it with all my weight and I didn't notice any movement whatsoever. BTW, I weigh about 240!

Jason

[volkdent]

Finally got all the brake lines! Had to have a couple custom flex lines made with banjo fittings that will reside on the ends of the MCs. Calipers are no farther along, looks like I might just have a set shipped directly from RPI Equipped to Lanner. What a PITA! At least now I can get all the lines run leaving just the front calipers to arrive and be bolted on. Slow and steady wins the race? We'll see...

Jason

[Mikey]

Slow and steady wins the race? We'll see...
Jason

I know how you feel. 1 step at a time. :D

[alt+f4]

Awsome stuff man!! I am thinking about my future bug project and you have given me some good ideas!! Biggest thing i need to see all the different pedal styles from the two main manufactures up close before thinking anymore.

keep us posted!

[Panelfantastic]

WHAT! No piccies? :eek:
I've never seen brake lines before, was hoping for some hi-res shots! ;)
Doing up my MC change right now myself. Using a custom adapter from Lanner to adapt a 944 unit. Found out my front brake lines were trash and needed to move the position of the hose-to-line bracket anyway, so I'm trying to run new hard line. Problem is anything off the shelf was too short or too long. Is turning out to be a real mess under there. :mad:


Jeff-

[volkdent]

I'm going to have to have all the lines flared, I'm just going to cut them, I think Walt has the tool to flare them. I've lost the tabs on the front due to my suspension, so I'll be welding on new ones. Speaking of pics, how about some of YOURS!

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

:p
I'm gonna stick a couple in here just because...
... and they are off topic too! :D

Mock up of the new front rad...

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL267/1824562/10150473/145433019.jpg

Me, about to weld my new shock mounts on in the wrong place...

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL267/1824562/10150473/145433020.jpg


Both of these pics have sucky stories that go with them, you just gotta love hot rodding.
Now for actual BRAKE related news, I am adding a 944 master cylinder to my brakes but its nothing to see. The only part worth mentioning is that somehow... I got and oddball MC off ebay (that turned out to be junk and am now waiting for another) that didn't fit the adapter that Lanner made for me. He is the man! Quickly whipped me up one special off my measurements. The MC is a tight fit, had to notch a cross brace and the side of the resivoir is like a hair away from the steering linkage BUT brakes gonna be TIGHT!


Jeff-

[volkdent]

I think that radiator setup will work out really good. Just get a ducting lip below the front edge to trap air and force it up and the fan on top should be plenty. I'm thinking(hoping) that this will do the trick for you. What's up with that tacked up bracket anyway? Is that an upper shock mount?

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Yep, upper shock mount about to be welded in the wrong place. Ended up having to replace a chunk of frame when I had to cut them back off :mad: .
Struggling with cooling still. Its not circulating, pump is direct drive so I know its working, was worried all the extra plumbing was too much of a load but my Eco buddy says it is air in the system. We'll see.


Jeff-

[volkdent]

Did you put a bleeder thingy in like I did? I'm really feeling like most of the problems I'm hearing about are air related, but I really don't know.

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Yep, bleeders at highest and lowest points. Think I got a handle on it today, finally got the t-stat to cycle a couple of times and all seems well... except that the ECU controlled fans are coming on waaay too early, like 150 degrees. May need to go to a seperate controller. The sensor for temp to ECU is about an inch away from the sensor for my gauge, I watched the gauge and was able to see the temp drop exactly when the t-stat is set for (195), so the gauge and it's sensor are spot on. Either the ECU sensor is going bad or the ECU has a hiccup.


Jeff-

[volkdent]

But the actual cooling system is cycling properly?!!!

J :D

[Panelfantastic]

Seems to be. No test drives yet because no brakes. All 30 feet of cooling lines and two radiators seems to be working though... we will see. :rolleyes:


Jeff-

[volkdent]

1.75" piston calipers FINALLY showed up today. This weekend I'll try to get one of those and one rotor shipped off to Lanner to start the caliper adapter and custom hubs.
If I get a chance, I'll try to get some of the lines done this weekend too, but the house is first priority for now.

Jason

[LLVWGL]

the ECU controlled fans are coming on waaay too early, like 150 degrees. May need to go to a seperate controller. The sensor for temp to ECU is about an inch away from the sensor for my gauge, I watched the gauge and was able to see the temp drop exactly when the t-stat is set for (195), so the gauge and it's sensor are spot on. Either the ECU sensor is going bad or the ECU has a hiccup.


Jeff-
Do the temp. guage and the fans both run off of the same coolant temp sensor?
Does this sensor have less resistance as the temperature increases?
If so, couldn't you put a resistor between the sensor and ECU, to trick it into thinking that the coolant is cooler than it really is?



BTW: Awsome bus!

[Panelfantastic]

Thanks!
Two diff sensors but they are right beside each other a the t-stat housing. Good idea about the resistor, what I really need to do is invest in a stand alone fan only controller. The new ones have a soft start with variable speed, auto controlled based on temp. Just haven't wanted to spend the $75.
If you've ever seen the current draw off a pair of these big fans coming on... that soft start is THE ticket! Right now, mine almost kill the engine when they kick on. :eek:

Jason, understand about house stuff. Been staring at the '61 ragtop shell I have in the back of the shop knowing it will prolly be a loooong time before I get to start another project.



Jeff-

[ajsyrup]

i dont know if its mentioned at all in any of the above threads if so i missed it what calipers are u planning on running? do u plan to have an ebrake?

[volkdent]

The ebrake is a mechanical Wilwood caliper.

[ajsyrup]

The ebrake is a mechanical Wilwood caliper.


do you have more pictures or info like what model caliper? i am trying to do a setup on my bug but i can not figure out witch caliper has the ebrake in it. more info would be a great help

thanks

[volkdent]

These calipers do not have the e-brake in them. The e-brake is a separate caliper. Go to the Wilwood site to get info, then call them for specifics. Mine will end up being Wilwood Dynalite 4 pistons front and rear, 1.75" pistons front, and I think 1.5" pistons rear. There will then be another pair of calipers on the rear that will be mechanical for the e-brake.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

ahh ok that makes much more sense i had emailed wilwood a few weeks ago and didnt get any sort of reply who knows. i also have seen a systems like a drum brake that sits inside the rotor as an ebrake i am just thinking that might be rather difficult to get inside a stock vw rotor

thanks for your help


These calipers do not have the e-brake in them. The e-brake is a separate caliper. Go to the Wilwood site to get info, then call them for specifics. Mine will end up being Wilwood Dynalite 4 pistons front and rear, 1.75" pistons front, and I think 1.5" pistons rear. There will then be another pair of calipers on the rear that will be mechanical for the e-brake.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

just came across this picture seems basically this is what you are talking about the caliper and then the second mechanical floater caliper for the ebrake

http://www.globalwest.net/WILWOODrpskdwg.gif

that makes a whole lot more sense now

thanks again for the assistance

[volkdent]

That's it! I have to make the "bracket" from scratch for my application, but that's the mechanical caliper.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

all the brackets will have to be made from scratch isnt that the fun of it lol be sure to post up pics of it when u have it set up and if i get brave i will do the same of mine lol thanks again for the help

That's it! I have to make the "bracket" from scratch for my application, but that's the mechanical caliper.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

any updates???? :D

[volkdent]

A rotor and caliper are finding their way to Canada as we speak. I was able to get them shipped out on Friday. I'm in the process of building a new garage and moving, so progress will be slow for the next couple of months.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

gheesh get to work would yah lol kidding its an interesting thread just didnt want to miss out on updated i will stay tuned :D


A rotor and caliper are finding their way to Canada as we speak. I was able to get them shipped out on Friday. I'm in the process of building a new garage and moving, so progress will be slow for the next couple of months.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/rip_van_winkle_engineering/MyBug/DCAM0453.jpg~original


what throttle set up is used in the picture? is that something purchased or your was it custom fab? or is it just a modified stock pedal set?

volkdent what throttle pedal do u intend to use?

also anyone ever messed around with the floor mount wilwood pedals i looked at a few in a pro truck over the weekend and it seems possible.

[volkdent]

The floor mount is possible, but I think it will require a false floor and moving the seat back quite a bit.

I'm having a custom pedal built that bolts in to the stock pedal assembly holes as well as the stock MC holes for support. I'm not getting to far with the guy I've been working with, so I may just draw it on AutoCAD and have someone mill it out for me.

The pedal in the pic is an aftermarket roller pedal.

Jason

[volkdent]

Talked to Lanner today. Apparently work starts in ernest next week.

Jason

[ajsyrup]

The floor mount is possible, but I think it will require a false floor and moving the seat back quite a bit.

I'm having a custom pedal built that bolts in to the stock pedal assembly holes as well as the stock MC holes for support. I'm not getting to far with the guy I've been working with, so I may just draw it on AutoCAD and have someone mill it out for me.

The pedal in the pic is an aftermarket roller pedal.

Jason


hmm ok i was thinking that cause wilwood shows the floor mount pedal at being like 6 inches i looked at some in a pro truck and it didnt look that big but i guess it was

i know what type of pedal it is but what is that assembly that bolts it to the tunnel?

[volkdent]

i know what type of pedal it is but what is that assembly that bolts it to the tunnel?[/QUOTE]


I could be mistaken, but it looks like the stock pedal base.

[ajsyrup]

i know what type of pedal it is but what is that assembly that bolts it to the tunnel?


I could be mistaken, but it looks like the stock pedal base.[/QUOTE]


thats what i was thinking as well i just wasnt sure

[volkdent]

Update: Spoke with Lanner today. He's machined a hat from "scrap metal" just to check out the offset he'll need for the hat to be ordered from Wilwood. Looks like we'll have something done in the next week.

Jason

[volkdent]

Another boring update: Hats came in from Wilwood with the offset Lanner specified and I've sent one off again today. Should be in the final stretch within about 3 weeks.

Jason

[volkdent]

Lanner got the hat. Like a dumb a$$ I only sent him one, like I did with the rotor and caliper, but he needs to machine them both! He did figure that we can do a dual pattern on the hat and hub though, 5x130 for Porsche and 5X100 or 112, we havn't figured out yet, for new VW. Lanner says that the new VW stuff has offsets of around 50, in the Porsche range, so hopefully I'll be able to get cheap VW aftermarket wheels shortly, as compared to fewer choices and higher cost of P car stuff.

Does anyone know what the new VW stuff wheel bolt pattern is?

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

5x100, same as Audi TT but not the rest of the Audis. I've got a set of NewBeetle Turbo S wheels in the shop if you need any measurments from them... or maybe you want the set?:D
(they actually belong to a buddy of mine and he WAY overpaid for them, $600:eek: )


Jeff-

[volkdent]

I'm talking bout the MkV not the MkIV. Lanner says the MkV is actually different than the MkIV. He knows the MkIV is 5x100, but he thinks the MkV might be 5x112 or something. It's the brand new Rabbit that he's talking about. Do you think it's the same?

Jas

[LLVWGL]

I'm talking bout the MkV not the MkIV. Lanner says the MkV is actually different than the MkIV. He knows the MkIV is 5x100, but he thinks the MkV might be 5x112 or something. It's the brand new Rabbit that he's talking about. Do you think it's the same?

Jas


He's right, all A5 cars are 5x112

[volkdent]

He's right, all A5 cars are 5x112

Thanks man. I might have Lanner just buy one rotor and get all the dimensions off of it then take it back. VW Parts accept non-used parts back don't they?

Jason

[LLVWGL]

Thanks man. I might have Lanner just buy one rotor and get all the dimensions off of it then take it back. VW Parts accept non-used parts back don't they?

Jason

yes we do.

Or you could just go to the dealer with a stud pattern guage (http://www.wheeladapter.com/wheel_gauges.asp) and ask the front counter parts salesman to grab you an 06 jetta/rabbit rotor.

[volkdent]

yes we do.

Or you could just go to the dealer with a stud pattern guage (http://www.wheeladapter.com/wheel_gauges.asp) and ask the front counter parts salesman to grab you an 06 jetta/rabbit rotor.

It's actually not the pattern I'm worried about, it's the hub-centric area, the angle and diameter of this area, but Lanner said that it's actually on the hub, not the rotor, so that's not much help. I would be hearing from Lanner later this week about how things have worked out.

Jason

[levi20AE]

the MkVs have a much different offset than the mkIVs. I dont know if this matters in your set up but I'll throw it out there as a heads up.

MkV wheel sizes
GLI/GTI stock Ronal 17" wheel - 17x7 et 54 - 23lbs
Monza/Detroit/Hufweisen BBS 18" wheel - 18x7.5 et 51 - 29lbs
Karthoum 18" wheel - 18x8 et 50 - 28lbs

MkIV R32 and 20th Ann. Edition wheel size
Aristo (R32 and 20thAE) 18 x 7.5 et 35 - 21 lbs.

[volkdent]

YES! 50-54 is a great range for offsets! I'll be able to run Porsche or VW wheels on the front, Lanner is making up hubs that will accept both, and I'll have him make up some adapters for the rear. That's great news, thanks.

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Wish I had a set of those Aristos laying around... :bawling:



Jeff-

[DORIGTT]

I've got a set available....

[Panelfantastic]

I better take it off thread and PM you before the name callin' starts...:p


Jeff-

[DORIGTT]

Sorry about that folks:eek:

[volkdent]

Hey, who's hijackin' my post!!!;)

[DORIGTT]

Look man! That guy rubbed my lamp and said my name three times while staring in the mirror in the bathroom at night after burying my body in an old indian grave yard and injecting me with a green sparkling fluid that was given to him by a group who never seemed to die but was never seen during the day.


He started it!!!!:D

[volkdent]

I'm glad there's a least SOME truth to that, and of course that I'm not overly sensitive.:D

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Is this the thread about narrowing bus beams? :p

[DORIGTT]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[volkdent]

Calipers, hubs, rotors, hats, adapter plates, and wheel nuts are now sitting in my garage. I must say, I think Lanner outdid himself. Before some people with busses and KGs start in, the pics will be coming shortly! The hubs and hats were drilled for 2 patterns, 5x130 and 5x112, and then Lanner built a hubcentric adapter to work with the larger Porsche ID.

Jason

[Mikey]

Before some people with busses and KGs start in, the pics will be coming shortly!

Jason

That's a good idea. I'd love to see the new parts. :laugh:

[Panelfantastic]

WooHoo! Progress! :cool:



Jeff-

[volkdent]

As promised.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/302504.jpg

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/302506.jpg

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/302508.jpg

Jason

[volkdent]

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/302511.jpg

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/302512.jpg

[ajsyrup]

very very cool indeed :D

[chug_A_bug]

nice send pics when you start to install it all ;)

[volkdent]

Back on it again, finally. Little hiccups to work out, but these things were made very well by Lanner at VDub Engineering. Pics as promised.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/329302.jpg

Sorry for the focus, stupid camera!

Jason

[wrenchnride247]

That's looking killer Jason! Glad to see you back on it.

[johnnyvee]

Lookin good:clap:

[ajsyrup]

very very nice :D

[volkdent]

I've had a little hiccup with the brakes, seems Brazilian spindles are a little different than the German spindle Lanner built these on. The calipers sit about 2.25mm inboard of where is should. Once again Lanner impressed me with his customer service, and had German spindles shipping my way before I could sneeze. He's really a very talented guy who values his customers greatly, something we need more of these days..... I'm tired of talking to people in India! Anyway, I'll mock this up on the German spindles and hopefully we are back in the saddle.

Jason

[wrenchnride247]

Oh yeah Jason! Lanner is "Da man"! He is a true customer satisfaction kinda guy! That was way cool of him to send German spindles.

[volkdent]

Calipers on with new adapters, remote reservoirs in, pedal assembly all in, need to do brake lines, hose from reservoirs to MCs, and fab up the mounting point for the remote bias adjuster this weekend hopefully. Still need to get 2 braided lines for the front calipers, already have the rears. Need to fab up some mounting points for the flex lines.

Working on the hydrolic clutch system in parallel, just got the metric hoses set up for standard fittings so I can run available hose around without too much trouble. Those bubble flanges are not easy to get in the US. Ya ya ya, I'll get pics up, quit yer whining!

Jason

[volkdent]

Well, it's been a busy summer, almost 6 months without turning a wrench, but I've ordered the braided lines for the front, and finally found a 3/16 inverted double female elbow I need to tie my OEM VW line into my standard hard line. I have 2 weeks off in Sept, so hopefully there will be plenty of progress to show for it.

Jason

[volkdent]

Finally got the master cylinder remote reservoirs in. Two are for the front and rear brake master cylinders and one is for the hydrolic clutch.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/378765.jpg

The final brake setup. I still need to paint the caliper adapter, but I'm going to run it to make sure it doesn't need to be changed again. I like the inner brakeline mount. It's just aluminum riveted to the inner fender, but it's simple and it looks good I think.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/378769.jpg

All the hoses are run to the master cylinders now, the clutch system is now in working order and bled. The brakes still need the lines built, but the reservoirs are all done except for the hose clamps. There is a grommet for the clutch reservoir hose, and on each brake reservoir hose there is a brass fitting that creates a 90 deg turn and drops the hose through the bulkhead, but keeps the gravity feed in place.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/378771.jpg

Had to make some "adjustments" to the bulkhead to clear the remote brake bias bar cable.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/378774.jpg

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Suhweeeet! :D


Jeff-

[volkdent]

Yeeeee Haaaaaa!!!! I finished building the brake lines today! What a PITA!!! Everything is tightened up now, only had one small leak, right off of one master cylinder, just had to tighten the copper crush washer a bit more. I put paper towel under each connection, it showed if there was any leaks. I'd recomend it if your building your brake system from scratch.

My girlfriend did the pumping, "pump......off........pump.....off.....", she's a gear head too, so it was very smooth sailing. Seriously firm pedal, but it feels like its going to be just right. I just need to get the thing running now!!!

Pics when I get back in town this coming weekend.

Jason

[volkdent]

Pics as promised. Next update will be on performance and then maybe adding an emergency brake.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/386425.jpg
Brake line bracket and linelock in background

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/386426.jpg
Rear line T

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/386427.jpg
Front T and brakelight switch

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/386430.jpg
Not a brake line, this is the hydrolic clutch line, but it was all done with the same line so I thought I'd include it.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/386432.jpg
The line lock, just in case some smoky burnouts become necessary...

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/386433.jpg
The business end of the brake system..

Jason

[GS guy]

That is one seriously nice swing mount pedal system Jason! Is it a bolt-in job inside the cab? You might consider designing and selling a kit for that - at least the frame assembly - leave it up to the purchaser to purchase the pedals and mastercylinders?
That solves a lot of problems trying to get not only a dual M/C brake pedal, but hydraulic clutch too!
Nice!
Jeff

[GS guy]

OK - sorry about that Jason - just read through the whole thread and now see the details.

You mentioned the Wilwood mechanical caliper for E-brake. Not sure if you've gotten these yet? I'm in a similar boat and do have a set of these - that I'm likely not going to use. I'm not crazy at all about the way they mount - basically a small "tang" fitting into a somewhat crude slot on either side of the caliper (as shown in that previous pic). I'm also not crazy about the way the floating pad sits in the caliper - it's not attached to anything! There is an actuator pin, backing plate and puck-pad all sitting loose in the caliper - only thing holding them in place is the fit of caliper to rotor, and that's "roughly" determined by that tang mounting business. Might be all right for a go-cart but......

You've probably seen the new Wilwood caliper with built-in e-brake? That might be the direction you'd want to take?? Or..........

How about a real floating mechanical caliper - with bolt-in sliding pins that simply bolt to your mounting bracket - just like the hydraulic Wilwood calipers bolt on??!!
Take a gander at these - same overall size as the Wilwood mechanicals, true precision floating mounting pins....
http://www.ipsco.org/Custom%20Services/Parking%20Brake.htm
Came across these on a GT40's web board - and they look like the perfect match for a set of Wilwoods! :D They Will be going on my brake set-up.
Cheers,
Jeff

[volkdent]

I've got those crappy Wilwood ones, and I totally agree. Those ones you showed are awesome!!! I'll have to look into those when I get there. That MC bracket is really simple and I was surprised how well it worked out. I agree that it would be good to put into production, but I want to make sure it work really well before I do. It involves drilling 2 holes for mounting, that's it!!! You need to drill more for the fluid lines, but still, pretty minor compared to all the body hacking I've seen from other styles of pedals.

Jason

[ricola]

Maybe too late, but a company in the UK has designed an ebrake conversion kit for the main calipers:
http://www.marlincars.co.uk/5exi_dev_brakes.html

[volkdent]

Wow, even better!!! I've got the Wilwoods pictured there! That's a great solution, I wish the PDF would download so I can actually see what the mechanism is.

Jason

[volkdent]

Brakes have had their first small test, seem OK, but hard pedal at this point. Might be perfect, it was just at low speed, but at least they work!!!

Jason

[volkdent]

A little video, the brakes are quite adjustable, but at this point, not even, as I think the corner weights are way off. I'll have to get the alignment and cornerweighting done before I really have an idea how they feel. So far, they brake very well, but I've not had them braking over 40 MPH, so it'll be interesting to find out how they stop on the freeway.

Acceleration and Braking tests (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u_6W7b3tH0)

Jason

[volkdent]

Well after running this setup for awhile I can say I only have one complaint, and that is pedal feel. Too firm a pedal, and therefore no pedal feel is annoying, but as far as how well they work, they been working great, no fade, plenty of stop, straight every time.

Next up will be new MC, downsize both and use the new MCs from Wilwood that will clean things up a bit, reservoir goes straight into MC instead of hokey adapter.

Jason

[volkdent]

I've got the car back from paint, and I've got the new smaller MC, so I think I will just be removing the largest MC, moving the other to the front position, then adding the new one back for the rear. I really hope this gives me enough pedal travel, but not too much. Pedal travel is so short right now that trying to light the brake lights with a pole so I could watch the lights, it was very difficult to push hard enough to trigger the brake switch!

Jason