Let There Be Brakes!!!

[volkdent]

I'm starting on the brakes now. I already have the RPI Equipped!(now defunked) Wilwood DynaLight 4 pots for the rear, as I got the whole kit for cost, and for the front I'm thinking another set of those or maybe some 6 pots? (I know, I know, Lazylongboarder is wearing off on me) but I can get them for cost as well so why not?

Anyway, today I purchased this Wilwood pedal assembly. It's reverse mount so I hope to be able to make it work, but I really need to have the pedals in my hand to fit them. I got them for $160 plus about $13 in shipping from Ebay, and Wilwood lists them for over $200 w/o shipping, so I'm feeling OK about that.



Jason

[Panelfantastic]

So lay out the design plan... reverse mount? you gonna hang'em? or try to adapt to a floor mount? resevoirs inside or outside?
I've seen some really cool pics of race cars done both ways. Gonna be sooo cool!


Jeff-

[volkdent]

Hang reverse mount. I'm going to fab up a bracket that attaches to stock points and I'll have to drill a couple more. Remote reservoirs under the hood. Brake bias bar with remote adjustment for now, and if I need it an adjustable proportioning valve to the rear. These pedals are the shortest ones they have with a 5.1/1 ratio. I asked Wilwood and they said for our little cars that ratio should be fine, and it gives me a little more space for pedal travel. I really don't know if those pedals with fit until I get them there, but they are just over 10" long at their longest, so I think that should fit under the steering column. We'll see!


What about T's for the system, should I just use the stock T's or is there something else I should look at?

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

The only thing I've ever seen with hard lines are those brass or aluminum block style... pick up a Street Rodder mag at the newstand, there are several companies listed that do nothing but brake hardware.
I'm in the process of upgrading a few things on the bus myself. Nothing as glamourus as your stuff, changing over to dual circuit M/C and adding a bias valve... are you planning to use the knob style or lever?


Jeff-

[volkdent]

Originally Posted by Panelfantastic

... are you planning to use the knob style or lever?


Jeff-

That's a little personal isn't it? I think knob, from what I understand it's infinitely adjustable while the lever has detents, but I could be wrong. According to the Wilwood guys, I should only get the proportioning valve if the bias bar isn't enough adjustment.

What sort of ends do those steel lines need anyway? I heard SS lines have to use some special pressed end or something. I havn't had any experience with brake system construction, just OEM type replacement.

Jason

[Panelfantastic]

Educate me a little... bias bar means you have independent cylinder and resevoir for the front and rear and the bar limits pressure on one or the other?
Pressed end? Not sure about that either. They do have a specific flare (degree amount) on the ends but that's all I was aware of...
It would be really cool looking if you could use braided everywhere but of course that's a big no-no and a wee bit pricey.



Jeff-

[bean_8044]

you can buy a good flaring/bending tool for less than $100 from most places

[volkdent]

Originally Posted by Panelfantastic

Educate me a little... bias bar means you have independent cylinder and resevoir for the front and rear and the bar limits pressure on one or the other?

Jeff-

Yeah, there's a bar that runs between the front and rear master cylinders. On the bar is the sliding linkage. You can get a remote adjuster that is a knob that when twisted, will pull or push the linkage along the bar. It adjusts the pressure that each master cylinder sees.

Hopefully, if I select the right master cylinders, I won't need to get the proportioning valve, and just the balance bar will be enough to dial it in.

"you can buy a good flaring/bending tool for less than $100 from most places"

I've got a couple of benders already, but I don't have a flaring tool. I've also heard there are specific flares for specific situation ie the angles, so I'm going to have to do a little research before I can get it done.

Jason

[tommi_nylund]

Which master cylinders you will use??

Wilwood´s or something else??

[volkdent]

Wilwood is saying 1" diam. for front and rear for the master cylinders and then the balance bar in the pedal assembly for tuning. I will probably not go 6 piston, as they are almost twice as heavy as the Dynalite 4 pot. If the Dynalites on the rear have 1 3/8" pistons, I'll be using 1 5/8 pistons on the front, but I have to reasearch as to what I actually have in the rear right now, they came as part of a kit I ordered and I don't know exactly what they are.




Jason

[rip]

volksdent

I resently did a wilwood triple firewall setup seen here










2nd gen Rx7 4 pots up front
single piston ford tarus sliders in the back

using 3/4 front mc
and 7/8 rear mc

also using 7/8 clutch mc

people say to use a 3/4 clutch mc but it was still a bit of movment I like the 7/8" better

oh and btw the last pic was without the pedals adjusted.

[rip]

oh yea also I made up a excel spreadsheet similar to the one tiltons uses to calculate the mc sizing if you want me to run some numbers lets me know.

I would need things like those in the attachment

many of the things I've already figured like pedal force and the measurements of the pedal assembly.

but tire size and specs on the brake calipers are definately needed.

let me know
rip

[rip]

some samples of the outputs

[volkdent]

Thanks for the info!

Are you going to build a false floor to get your feet up as high as the pedals are? I was just checking out the Stasis Engineering Speed Touring Car A4, and they did just that with some aluminum.

One way or the other, it looks like your going to have to get your clutch and brake pedals near your gas pedal. What is your plan with that?

I might have some time today to try to position those pedals today and see how they'll work. I'm going to be using remote reservoirs to make fluid access easier.

Jason

[rip]

actually with the new seats in the pedals arn't that bad, i'm pretty tall with 12.5 size shoe.

but I was toying with the idea of simply extending the pedal surface a little bit lower. this is easier than the false floor. Not to mention ever try to get into a bug with a false floor? not to easy for taller guys. the steering wheel hits the legs when getting in.

But please keep us posted I was thinking of getting the reverse swing wilwood pedals but thought it would interfer with the steering column too much, that they would hit too low on the foot, and push the pedals too close to the driver. not to mention it seems like you have to build a semi cage to hold them. if you already got a cage no problem, but needless to say a few little things were discouraging me with that setup.

The problem with the firewall setup is like you mentioned the hieght. but if you build new pedals and just use the mount for the mc. you can increase the pedal ratio and drop them further. just gotta rethink the mc size then. but its all fun.

rip