Street motor

[vdubguy]

Ok im lost! i have been trying to figure out what size motor i can go and still be a daily driver and be fast and still be NA. Theres gotto be some one that has a very fast bug/13's and still drive it back and forth to work.

[chug_A_bug]

you Looking For T1 your T4??

[ricola]

That's the exact reason I went for Subaru... Other than the fact I'm happy to go turbo and faster than 13's!

[Eatoniashoprat]

That's the exact reason I went for Subaru... Other than the fact I'm happy to go turbo and faster than 13's!

Sorry to hijack but have you run yours in the quarter yet?

[ricola]

Haven't finished the new cab yet... Dyno calculator says it should do 12.0s 1/4 mile but I'm building it for the street not the drag so won't be biasing gearing etc to chase numbers.

[Wally]

Haven't finished the new cab yet... Dyno calculator says it should do 12.0s 1/4 mile but I'm building it for the street not the drag so won't be biasing gearing etc to chase numbers.
Its still a bogus reason to go subaru and now I also proved it! My current stock long block type 4 2.0 engine just did a 11.99 in the 1/4 and it is heavy as hell because its a street/track-day car above all.
Dyno'd at 270 FWHP or 235 RWHP (have dyno sheet and time slip to prove both!) at just 14 psi an pump gas.
Oh, and it did 32 mpg average town/freeway driving back from the track!

---> Subaru engines are totally NOT 'neccesary' for anything :D (not trying to piss you off Rich, just making a point ;) )
I know, I know, apples and oranges ;)

[Sandeep]

You can add me to the sub 12 sec group as well ... 2.0 T4 Daily driver :D Not NA but its a heavy GL beetle ;)

Subies have their place but a turbo T4 can get you there as well.

Sandeep

[ricola]

---> Subaru engines are totally NOT 'neccesary' for anything :D (not trying to piss you off Rich, just making a point ;) )
I know, I know, apples and oranges ;)

:D I completely agree they are not necessary, I just prefer driving :driving: to wrenching on engines! You can pick up a complete subaru donor for the price of an aftermarket ECU these days and give me a fully engineered stock powerful engine over a tweeked one any day..

[evilC]

Going back to the original purpose of the thread, there is no sustitute for cubes and if you take that premise it boils down to cost per cube.

The scooby route looks very attractive but hanging that great lump out of the back has its own compromises. I'm currently playing around with some thoughts on supercharging and rotary power to acheive the fun quotient.

evilC

[volkdent]

:D I completely agree they are not necessary, I just prefer driving :driving: to wrenching on engines! You can pick up a complete subaru donor for the price of an aftermarket ECU these days and give me a fully engineered stock powerful engine over a tweeked one any day..

Rich is right, there's a reason you can't buy new aircooled vehicles any more, and it's not just because of emissions... I like working on my car, but I like to drive the snot out of it too and not be having to fix it all the time, and I don't mean just back and forth 5 miles to work, I mean take it to the track, drive across country, whatever, the reliability leans towards watercooled and modern technology.

Going back to the original purpose of the thread, there is no sustitute for cubes and if you take that premise it boils down to cost per cube.

The scooby route looks very attractive but hanging that great lump out of the back has its own compromises. I'm currently playing around with some thoughts on supercharging and rotary power to acheive the fun quotient.

evilC

Rotary is great for HP, not so good for torque, and you're still dealing with a finicky motor type. Very good for weight though!!!

Jason

[Wally]

Rich is right, there's a reason you can't buy new aircooled vehicles any more, and it's not just because of emissions... I like working on my car, but I like to drive the snot out of it too and not be having to fix it all the time, and I don't mean just back and forth 5 miles to work, I mean take it to the track, drive across country, whatever, the reliability leans towards watercooled and modern technology.

Rich is not right, but we all have our preferences I suppose. Personnaly I think bugs and aircooled should be connected. Part of the hobby and claiming to be within the german-style is adapting modern technology to the ancient (aircooled) technology and show them and yourself that it can be done!

I won't go as far as calling a non aircooled (maybe with the waterboxer as an exception as its orginal a further developed type 1-ish design) bug Not-german-style, but am certainly leaning towards that. To me german-style and a 'custom car' are definately two different things... but I still can and will respect anyones taste on non-stock bugs ;)

As I and many others have shown, the type 4 engine can do all that what has been mentioned above and then some more wrt what used old suby engines can. The issue of 'difficulty' or wrenching time is really lame because to install a watercooled suby engine in an aircooled bug and do it even a little nicely in order that it really IS reliable (cooling!), takes as much if not more time than building a proper type 4!

I really don't understand it either though, as both Volksdent and Ricola are VERY good builders and plenty creative and have invested also quite some in their cars. So why don't you guys use this to make a really respectable effort with your cars by keeping it aircooled and give it that extra :shocked: ?

OTOH, maybe enough has been said about this subject ;)

[gonebuggy]

You can add me to the sub 12 sec group as well ... 2.0 T4 Daily driver :D Not NA but its a heavy GL beetle ;)

Subies have their place but a turbo T4 can get you there as well.

Sandeep

Daily driven? Come on now Sandeep, that's a stretch!:p

Alex

[Bad bug]

I haven't posted here in a long while, but as to how i see it these guys than went watercooled should have kept it in the family, by this i mean going waterboxer. My friend here in jamaica went watercooled sometime ago and everyone here said he couldn't do it it wouldn't work but i was surprised to see that the engine fit better than the original 1600 aircooled engine with lots of room to spare. This was a direct bolt in a fare. Well just look at this video of a 2.8ltr waterboxer with 850whp.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_upA5xLdM

[Sandeep]

Daily driven? Come on now Sandeep, that's a stretch!:p

Alex

It was daily driven last year to dyno day and the 1/4 mile, and almost every day in between. This year is a different story as I am relacing the pan halves.

I had no issues with driving my car every day that I could last year.

Sandeep

[vdubguy]

Thank you all for the info very useful...Im going to change the subject hope ya all don't mind? take a look at this vdub and its clean but im wondering why so slow or im just use to the 260 hp of my stang but it cant be i had a 72 Vdub 1600 single carb and it pulled very well and after test driving it sounds good starts very easy very clean no oil leaks but seems slow? does it seem like a good deal? please advise as its been over 10 years since i drove a vdub

http://reno.craigslist.org/cto/831489592.html

[volkdent]

(maybe with the waterboxer as an exception as its orginal a further developed type 1-ish design)

You don't think the Suby motor has any similarities with an aircooled? I think the Japanese just kept going with a good thing.:rolleyes:

I really don't understand it either though, as both Volksdent and Ricola are VERY good builders and plenty creative and have invested also quite some in their cars. So why don't you guys use this to make a really respectable effort with your cars by keeping it aircooled and give it that extra :shocked: ?

You might want to give Rich and I a little credit then for going watercooled. I don't know how old people are on this site, but Rich and I have been there/done that. The car I have on here I've owned since I was 15 and I'm 36 now, so once you've repaired your aircooled motor the umpteenth time after spending thousands of $, you start to scratch your head and ask yourself if there isn't a smarter option, that's all. I love aircooled, and if I could build an aircooled engine with 300hp that I could drive all day and as long as I wanted, I would have, it just doesn't happen.

OTOH, maybe enough has been said about this subject ;) Agreed, we ARE hijacking the poor guy's thread!:lmao:

Thank you all for the info very useful...Im going to change the subject hope ya all don't mind? take a look at this vdub and its clean but im wondering why so slow or im just use to the 260 hp of my stang but it cant be i had a 72 Vdub 1600 single carb and it pulled very well and after test driving it sounds good starts very easy very clean no oil leaks but seems slow? does it seem like a good deal? please advise as its been over 10 years since i drove a vdub

http://reno.craigslist.org/cto/831489592.html

Bugs ARE slow, unless you add power, thus the other hijacked part of your thread, sorry! I think you mentioned just doing drag stuff but you might want to be patient and wait for a '69 if you like the look of the '68 as '69's have Independant Rear Suspension (IRS) that provides much better contact with the road(better handling). If straight forward speed is all you really are looking for, I think the '68 is just fine. Offer less though!

Jason

[vdubguy]

Offer less? any reason? dont get me wrong i would love to just give him 500 bucks but i dont want to piss him off by a low ball offer lol heres some better photos it is very very clean what should i offer him?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=655552
seats and belts alone are over 1000 dollars then new tires




and here i just found a 69 need to go look.
http://reno.craigslist.org/cto/800275366.html

[volkdent]

I don't mean low low ball, just $3k instead of $3500 or $2200 or $2500 instead of $2700, you'll be wanting that extra money when you start fixing it up! The main thing is rust. Do you know the spots Bugs rust in? Also, accidents, look under the car, look the body over very carefully. You don't want to rip the car apart in front of the owner, but there are easy ways to see whether it's been in a front or rear ender often. He should have NO problem with you jacking up the car to look under. The first one is in much better LOOKING shape, but who knows if it's really in better body shape?

Jason

[vdubguy]

Well im the new owner of a 1968 Vdub he wouldnt go any lower than 3500 because of the new motor tires rims seats but once i found rusted floor pan on the driver side he agreed on 2g been there done that shouldnt cost me that much ill do myself for about 80 bucks:)

[volkdent]

Congrats and welcome to the world of VW! Hopefully that's all the rust you find, but be prepared for more, or don't go looking, one of the two! Keep us posted.

Jason

[vdubguy]

LOL funny you say that in 2 weeks me and my buddy will lift it up strip the whole bottom and rust bullet it up good and cut and replace what we can with the body on and if its a nightmare like unsafe then ill resale and try again.:D

[vdubguy]

ok now the fun begins...

i seem to have a slight pop backfire out the stinger at idle then off of idle it pops and hesitates then goes any ideas i did a full tune and no change.

[volkdent]

I'm not the guy to ask about A/C vw motors, but there's a few guys on here who know plenty, keep trying.

Jason