Hey DorigTT,

I really appreciate all the support you've given me. Sometimes I was sure I was just plain crazy, so at least I know there are a couple other crazy guys out there too!

Pete, the castor is fixed in the design, but it still uses the stock VW eccentrics, so there is some castor adjustability. I'll have to ask the designer what castor angle it was designed at. Castor is really only for high speed stability, so the less the better as long as it feels comfortable.

Jason

I just read this whole thread for the first time. :agree: Walt linked it in in the Volksrods.com forums. It looks like it is coming together nicely. Let us know how it works out!

and when we can order one ourselfs :)

will it be possible to lower the front with this setup like with the regular adjustable front axle (if it's in this thread somewhere then I'm sorry I missed it)

Tom, this thing will only come initially in slammed mode. All the geometry is setup for a 17" wheel with 40 series tires just tucked under the fender at ride height. The one I've made that you see in the pictures will run 215s on the front. It sticks out about 1" from a stock fender, I wanted a slightly wider track than stock as my back end is going to be very fat. I've ordered new stock width fenders from Creative Car Craft and Bruce?(the owner) is also making me just some outside fender lips from the stock fender mold. I'm going to graft those to the stock fenders to allow the extra 1" to fit under without making the whole fender wider and making the bumpers look funny. It should like a stretched stock fender or maybe like the eyebrowed german look ones. The problem is then I'll have to do the backs eyebrowed as well, and I really prefer the stock fender lines.

We might make a stock height one if the demand is there, but I really can't imagine someone who is comfortable with stock ride height having the need for better cornering, seems kind of backwards, don't ya think!?

Jason

Sounds like my style...
Slammed on 17's
Willing to go the extra mile for 5miles of turns ..
Peace Troy

Looks incredible, Jason! Finally all the hard work is starting to really come together. My project (pictures in the "suspension gallery") has been on the road for about a year now (about 2K miles) and I've been able to solve the early problems and "tweak" a few other things along the way. I'm sure you can't wait to check out your set up on the road, as well. Will you be adding an anti-roll bar?

Pure55, I'm sure an anti-roll bar will come into play soon enough, but for now it's a matter of making it work properly the way it is then adding as is needed. How did you determine how much anti-roll was needed?

Jason

I just measured the torsional stiffness of the front bar off a super (which I was using at the time) and used that as the starting point, since weight distribution in my car is similar. It was also important, in my design, to keep reasonable ride quality. When I changed to the "de-coupled" front bar, it was a matter of finding another one that fit and had roughly the same torsional rate. On the horizon, though, is a switch to an adjustable bar. The one on there now is working well, but I want to explore the effects of a larger bar..

Jay

Just getting the final upper shock position squared away. It turned out we had less bump travel than we needed, so the shock mount is being redesigned to be a few mm higher and account for a bump stop as well.

Jason

Were you buy the coilovers and how much?

Dou you calculate the spring rate?

The coilovers are QA1s. I think Carrera bought them out of vice versa. I think the model is Proma Star. I havn't bought the springs yet as I'm waiting to get the car all together so I can weigh it.

Here's my shock. Since I bought mine they've introduced a double-adjustable one too, rebound and compression.

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...7&autoview=sku

For the money it is a very good shock, but if you really want to spend some cash, try Ohlins.

Jason

Have you used that before..
I checked them out on *KSR*
The Ohlins are just out of my range right now..
Just dont know many ppl that have heard or used the HAL Shocks..
Peace Troy

Thanks.

Do you know something about aldan coilovers?

They are an old hot rod mainstream from what I understand. The guy I have building my front end uses them, but again, he's a hot rod guy, I'm more of a road race guy. I've seen one the Aldans, and at least as far as construction was concerned, I wasn't impressed, but I really don't know how they function compared to QA1s. What I do know is that QA1s have adjustment, on mine there is a single adjustment for compression/rebound, and they've recently introduced a separate rebound, separate compression adjustment, I don't know if Aldans have any.

Jason

i know when i had my suspenion modded on my road bike (01 Yamaha R6)
the difrence was unreal..
im guessing this gose for anything that has suspenion..
cant wait to get my hands in on a suspenion project..
*Peace Troy*

Still re-doing the shock tower. We are changing the the crossmember as well to get it closer to the shifter tunnel and make more room for a custom gas tank. Plus it will look better too!

Jason

Hey Jason,
Sounds like your IFS is getting a pretty heavy makeover - before it even hits the road! All in the details isn't it!?
I decided to build my IFS around the Mustang II based components. This is a custom modification to a tube frame chassis fiberglass buggy, but might still be of interest (switching from balljoint front end to IFS).
Couple of interesting aspects - the MII spindles weight less than 1lb more than CB lowered drum brake spindles, yet take much larger bearings (~0.200" larger in diameter) than the VW. I'm using a bolt-on disc brake kit - solid rotor/aluminum hub with 11.75" rotor diameter & 4-piston Wilwood forged DL calipers. :)
Compared to the BJ set-up - I'm loosing 3lb per side in unsprung weight despite the extra beef of the MII hardware, and despite my previous BJ setup using custom adapters and Wilwood 4-piston calipers (already much lighter than std. disc brake spindles and VW iron calipers!). A bonus is I get a lot less scrub radius and rack & pinion steering. On paper the geometry looks pretty good - my next step is to assemble the hardware and take some as-built dimensions and verify locations of the inner pick-up points. I'm designing an adjustable upper A-Arm pick-up location for tweaking caster and swing-arm length - if necessary after it's built.
Jeff

I am using the QA1s on my bus. Work great so far. Quality seems top notch. The adjustability is very good, a couple clicks on the knob makes a huge difference.

I noticed that in the 3d design the main part of the shock body is mounted with the body on the inboard side attched to the chassis part and the rod end attched to the lower A-arm, but in the pictures the shock body side is mounted on the A-arm end and the rod to the chassis side.


I was thing with this change is it because clearence or huh? seems would be beeter witht he shock body being ont he chassis side to remove some unsprung weight.

QA1's are designed to sit with the body of the shock on the bottom. Splitting hairs on the weight of an aluminum shock is a little silly anyway, as the unsprung weight is only half the weight of the shock, which isn't much. I think just driving this thing is the priority now. If it works good, then I'll look at where the ounces can come off!

Jason

Cool...Didnt realize how lught those shocks are.


Cant wait to hear about how this thring drives when it gets to that point!!

Bob's health is better again, so he's on it. I hope to have the laser cut files over to the machine shop this week.

Jason

any idea of the weight this system could support? I have a split bus with all the suspension bits stripped off it. I was thinking I may try building a locost type suspension for it.
Your setup looks cool and definatly might be an option, but I'd like to do a matching IRS as well.

But ideas are only any good if you make them real.

Hey Shadow,

I really don't know what it will handle weight-wise. I'll have to ask. It was designed for Type 1, so Type II and Type IV variants will be for another rainy day. I suspect it would be stronger than the locost option, as that is an ultra-light weight kind of a car as far as I know.

BTW, your link is no longer working on your signature. Any new pics?

Jason

My site hasn't been updated in some time but I fixed the link.
I'll have to build a section on the bus sometime, but I guess I'll have to make some progress on it first.

The design is with the laser cutter now. They said 8-30 days, whatever that means! So when that is done, it will get over to Walt's again for final welding. I just got the copy of Hot VWs with Bruce's version on the convertable. Looks pretty cool, I wonder how it drives.

Jason

I've just read this whole thread.
Wow. :eek:
That is seriously impressive.

Price?
 

Hey Volkdent,
Progress is looking great so far for you. I'm still deciding on whether i should try to adapt the macpherson front setup from the 993, so i'm looking around at other options as well. I am still planning on the multi-link rear setup from the 993, i've seen it fab'd into cages on kit cars so i don't think it'll be to much of a problem (that's what i think now).

I realize that this won't be done for a while, but can you give me a "ball park" figure on what you think the setup will cost.

Thanks again and i'm watching your progress with great interest.

Russ

I think going with the 993 rear end is a great idea, you'll just be cutting out a lot of material, that's all. It was my first thought as I started my whole process. And your rear end will be amazingly wide. Just check on the track of a stock 993 and then see how wide they make fenders for a bug, because it is an amazing amount wider. It might end up looking really wierd to have a bug with the back end that wide.

I really don't know how much mine will be, if ever it goes on sale. I would imagine around $3500 complete bolt on with shocks, steering rack, and the machine work to the stock steering shaft to connect to the rack. But that price is really based on fabrication and the amount of time and money that went into development. It might be less when I just sit down and look at how much it would cost to make with all the info I know now. Keep in mind that my kit is designed to hang on to as much stock stuff as possible, but if you went with non-stock stuff, it could be had for cheaper. For example, if you just bolted on a steering wheel and shaft setup from a Mk II golf, you could have an adjustable steering wheel as well, but it would look sort of odd in the bugs interior. My decisions were to make the bug look almost stock, but really, REALLY not be!

Jason

OK, apparently they are actually working on my shock towers now, maybe they will be done this week, but unfortunately Mon. is usually the day I pick stuff up, and its a holiday, so it'll bee next Mon. before I can pick them up. Then hopefully a couple more weeks and the suspension is complete. I'm going to get the front end rolling and temporize the rear suspension so I can get the car down to Walt's and have him fab up the rear suspension strut mounts. They are going to be a little more complicated than I wan't to tackle, being they are going to be removable from the superstructure. He's got all the equipment and the know how to do the job right the first time.
Then I can roll it home and start on the different systems!!!

Jason

That 993 setup would have to be narrowed or some crazy offset rear wheels used. Either way sounds COOL! If you're fabbing it into a chassis, you just ditch the factory crossmembers and get shorter axles. I think some of those wild offset wheels would be even cooler though, I like a little lip but the flat face is just as appealing, especially because it would disguise all that rubber tucked under the fenders....

Walt has the front end now. Just those new shock towers cost $330. I really couldn't believe it. Anyway, he should have it welded up in a couple of weeks.

Jason

Picked up the whole works from Walt today. Nice welding! The new shock towers are too tall it seems, and I'm just completely done with the idea of more mods for now, so I may just be getting some new QA1's that are longer and are double adjustable. I gave everything a painjob with hammertone silver. I didn't spend much time on prep, as this whole thing will be sandblasted and powder coated, but at least it will look good and keep the rusting down. I gave the area around the frame head a spray of undercoating. Tomorrow I'll bolt things up and maybe snap some pics.

Jason

Quit teasing us and drive the damned thing! This is worse than going to one of 'those bars'! Yes, I'm worked up about it :D

Got her bolted on today. The paint stayed on OK except for a couple spots to touch up. The same can not be said of the undercoating I sprayed on as well. It must be some cheap stuff, because the stuff I've used before has been pretty heavy duty. Getting this thing on and off of a car is like doing one of those wire puzzles from the 80's. So don't get to worked up, as a "for sale" version would need to be modified enough to make it easier to get on and off. Anyway, I'll be ordering up the new shocks tomorrow. Oh, I bolted up one of the wheels. I can't remember the offset, but the tire is 205/40/17. I had to modify the edge of the 2" wider fenders to clear it, so that gives you an idea of how much wider of a track I built into this suspension, again, something that most people probably would want near stock. I'll hopefully get the rear end temporarily bolted up tomorrow to get the car over to Walts.

Jason

TPIWWP! :D


Jeff-

I have no idea what that means!!! Apparently firemen spend a little time online at the firehouse!

Jason

Something I picked up from those smartasses over at the Audiworld forums....
This Post Is Worthless Without Pics.

Getting Close
 

Man, some people on here are SO demanding! ;) Here you go, just so its worth while to look at this thread!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230073.jpg

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230074.jpg

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230072.jpg

Getting Close 2
 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230083.jpg

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230076.jpg

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230080.jpg

Ride Height

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/230079.jpg

Full Bump, looks kinda mean I think!